Testwiki:Articles for deletion/Maya Soetoro-Ng

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus to delete, default to keep. I recommend considering to merge it to Obama family, if that survives AfD.  Sandstein  18:44, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Maya Soetoro-Ng

Template:La (delete) – (View log)

This person is clearly non-notable. Being related to a famous person and the media being aware of her existence does not make for a notable entry on wikipedia. She is a mere teacher - how many of them are there in the world? Are we to have an article for all of them? John Smith's (talk) 19:22, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

  • Delete/Merge to an article on Barrack Obama/the Obama family. John Smith's (talk) 09:19, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
You meant to type "merge with Maya's mother's article," I presume.  ∼ Justmeherenow (  ) 16:21, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
I've clarified - thanks. John Smith's (talk) 16:49, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
Comment to LotLE So what? Lots of people get quoted in the press who don't have articles on wikipedia. John Smith's (talk) 21:08, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete. Non-notable other than by being related to a famous person. May just possibly merit a namecheck in Obama's article re her campaigning for him, but even that's stretching it. --Karenjc 20:32, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
  • Snowball keep - clearly meets notability concerns under WP:BIO. Many significant mentions in reliable sources. Hundreds of recent news articles.[1] She is the sister of a presidential candidate and, as such, extremely important. We're not making that judgment - the reliable sources are. She's also active in the campaign. There is an effort to delete articles about Obama's family members the nominator describes as the work of the Obama "fan club".[2][3][4] Approaching articles with that suspicion, and believing their creators are motivated by a partisan WP:POV rather than assuming they are the efforts o well-meaning editors to expand the encyclopedia by writing articles about notable subjects, poses the issue as a POV] one.Wikidemo (talk) 02:16, 13 July 2008 (UTC) this and later comments refactored to turn down heat some - Wikidemo (talk) 11:30, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
    Why is being the sister of a presidential candidate "extremely important"? You are claiming these nominations are POV yet I see no justification of the statement I quoted you on. I think the only POV is coming from those who are trying to keep these articles. John Smith's (talk) 09:10, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
It puts her in close proximity, affiliation, trust, etc., with someone who either will be, or will come close to being, the most powerful person on earth. Of all the Obama siblings - some more distant or estranged - his sister is the one who has worked most closely with him on the campaign. That is probably why the world takes note of her, but whatever my hunch is as to why people are interested it is clear that they take note as evidenced by hundreds of recent news articles about her. Wikidemo (talk) 09:44, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
Please do not lie. I have never said that I am going around deleting contributions of people who might like Obama. I expressed my feeling that certain people are too enthused about him and creating articles that should not be. And as I wrote on the other afd, you are lumping me together with everyone who actively dislikes Obama just because I have a used a term you say they do. I am, if you had bothered to look at my profile, not American and generally not interested in Obama's article on the project. Assume good faith if you wish to have it from others.
Being in a position of trust is irrelevant. If she makes a name for herself in presidential work after/if Obama is elected, ok depending on the detail that might make an article on her justified. But not until - he is still facing an election and simply working on a candidate's campaign isn't enough. Making subjective and vague comments like "his sister is the one who has worked most closely with him on the campaign" is not helpful to deciding what to do with the article. John Smith's (talk) 10:59, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
  • Keep. Unlike some other relatives of Sen. Obama, Soetoro-Ng has had numerous independent statements quoted in the press. LotLE×talk 19:17, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
  • Temporary Keep. Re-nominate for merge/delete if Barack loses election. Fact is, being immediate family of the US President is notable. Would Laura Bush have an article, never mind the huge article she currently has, if she had never married GWB? Notability isn't a matter of whether someone is notable "on his or her own merits"; some people are notable by virtue by birth, as here.Bdell555 (talk) 01:13, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
Sigh, why do people keep using the spouse example to justify other relatives? This person is not Obama's wife. Being wife of the president gains actual status - they are given a title. Other relatives are not given status. The "first family" extends to the president, spouse and children only. John Smith's (talk) 06:33, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
It's a counter-example to the claim that one's notability cannot arise from the circumstances of family relationships. You can propose a standard that an official or common title or position based on kinship makes the kin notable. But that's just an observation or a proposed criterion, not something set in stone. Policy and guideline say nothing about how notability might arise - it just gives a presumptive test based on coverage in reliable sources. Being attacked by, dated with, having a child with, impugned by, best friends with, a child or parent of, etc., a famous person could, depending on the circumstances, result in people taking note of a person's life. Then we have to decide, if various sources thought it was important enough to cover, do we feel it is too? Wikidemo (talk) 08:27, 14 July 2008 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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