Testwiki:Articles for deletion/Lolo Soetoro

Note: This was at least the third time this article was up for deletion--and it was deleted at one point in the spring of 2008.--Canada1776 (talk) 23:49, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Alexnia (talk) 16:53, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Lolo Soetoro

Template:La (delete) – (View log)

See immediately below  $\sim$ Justmeherenow (  ) 20:12, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

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Note: A merge was previously discussed at Talk:Lolo Soetoro#merge redirect recommendation. Voters in this AfD may wish to read the comments made earlier in relation to that merge proposal.

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• Delete and redirect to Family of Barack Obama, since the article at its present length would fit nicely in the family article.

Here's the history of AfD's concerning extended Obama family members:

1. "Ann Dunham" was kept March 10
2. "Barack Obama, Sr." was kept March 12
3. "Madelyn Dunham" was kept March 17
4. "Malik Obama" was deleted July 7, then was "merged to an article to be determined" July 12
5. "Sarah Obama" was kept March 17, then merged to Obama Family July 17
6. "Maya Soetoro-Ng" was no-consensus kept July 17
7. The "Obama family" was deleted June 4, then no-consensus kept July 20
8. "Zeituni Onyango" was (it appears) no-consensus kept(?) Novemeber 6

If some Wiki-editors would comment on what principles they believe apply to multiple family members across the board, I'd appreciate this too. Thanks.  $\sim$ Justmeherenow (  ) 20:42, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

• Keep just like during last AfD on same article (when the article was less developed). LotLE×talk 20:46, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

I'd thought there may have been a previous one for Lolo but upon researching it was surprised to discover that there has yet to be one.  $\sim$ Justmeherenow (  ) 20:53, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

There was a merge discussion on Talk:Lolo Soetoro that was rejected. This AfD is really more like a merge request than an AfD proper. LotLE×talk 20:58, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Here is a link to the above mentioned discussion.  $\sim$ Justmeherenow (  ) 02:10, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

• NOTE: This debate has been included in the list of Indonesia-related deletion discussions. ApprenticeFan (talk) 22:45, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
• keep stepfather of a US president? Notable. Article is ridiculously long, but that's another matter.Bali ultimate (talk) 03:13, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
• Notability is not inherited. While the stepfather of a US President is perfectly acceptable Wikipedia content in the appropriate place, he doesn't inherently merit his own separate article just because he married Barack Obama's mother. Merge into Family of Barack Obama; the talk page discussion opposing that seems to be conflating a merger with deletion as if merging meant that the information would somehow disappear. Bearcat (talk) 03:38, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
• Strong Keep the subject has been covered in depth in multiple reliable sources. Sure its true that the only reason he received this coverage is because of his marriage to Obama's mother but every notable person has to be notable for something. WP:NOTINHERITED is more that a subject without sourcing does not merit its own article just because it is related or a derivative of something notable. Icewedge (talk) 04:32, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
• Keep Historians and amateurs are interested in the close relatives of historical figures. The Family of Barack Obama page is already kind of cluttered, and there's enough content here for a reasonably informative article, so we might as well just leave things as they are. Zagalejo^^^ 05:17, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
• Merge to the family article, since a merge requires edit history preservation, the delete request and merge suggested by the nominator cannot apply. 70.55.86.100 (talk) 06:50, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
• at best merge into the family article. Merge discussions are not for AfD, hence speedy close. --dab (𒁳) 11:38, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
• Keep Saint Joseph has his own article and he is only known as the foster father of Jesus. Steve Dufour (talk) 17:45, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
• Keep Notability is present for close relatives of famous figures--I deliberately use the very restrictive word, "famous", rather than merely notable, and US presidents count as famous. (more so than losing candidates, and some of the article listed above were discussed before the election). This notability is shown by their invariable inclusion in considerable detail in biographies. In many cases of famous historic figures, we have difficulty writing the articles because there is simply not enough known about them--and this may well be the case for some of Obama's remoter relatives--at least at the present time. But a stepfather with a role in a child's upbringing is a very significant person in his life, which is why there is extensive coverage of such people in biographies--and the extent of sources already available shows it. I think for people as famous as Presidents, any relative with a significant role in the life is independently notable--and so are children, siblings, parents, and grandparents, even if they had no particular direct role--grandparents have at least an obvious indirect role. More distant relatives depends on the sourcing. DGG (talk) 18:16, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
• Keep, don't merge. Notable and too long to be merged into that already-huge page. WP:NOT paper, etc. 99.245.92.47 (talk) 10:07, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
• Keep, dont merge. Mr Tan (talk) 14:25, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
• Strong Keep, no merge. they are the family of future US president. before long, there might be some more info to add. no more comment from me w_tanoto (talk) 16:53, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
• Strong keep, don't merge -- Scanlan (talk) 20:44, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.