Testwiki:Articles for deletion/Eventology

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete eventology, Eventological language, Event-terrace, Eventological distribution, Glossary of eventology, Set of events and random set of events and Set of random events and random set of events, apparently keep Indicator function, simple function and random element. --Sam Blanning^(talk) 12:46, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Eventology

It's self-promotion of User:Helgus, author of most of publications (with a few of graduates). It's non-notable in Russia, and not cited by other people --Vladimir Volokhonsky 09:14, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. It cannot be found on Google (what CAN be found on Google, besides Wikipedia, is a lot of links to a page about an event-management firm for corporations, with this name). No papers with this word on ArXiv, one paper on MathSciNet, and not by Vorob'ov. Vorob'ov himself does not appear on either of these. Since I can't find any of the cited papers, and presumably couldn't read them if I did find them (since they're in Russian) I can't verify any of the content of the eventology pages. The pages themselves don't say anything besides a bunch of recurring buzzwords, the phrase "new direction in probability theory", and a few unexplained mathematical expressions. Nothing on any of the pages tells me what eventology is, what its results are, what it's used for (barring the grandiose generalities in the introduction to this page). I suggest in addition we delete all the articles in only Category:Eventology, since they appear to be nothing more than vanity pages for Vorob'ov. Ryan Reich 13:59, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Comment I think this AfD should be extended to cover the various subpages

1. Eventological language
2. Event-terrace
3. Eventological distribution
4. Glossary of eventology
5. Indicator function
6. Random element
7. Set of events and random set of events
8. Set of random events and random set of events
9. Simple function

and the category Category:Eventology as these pages loose meaning if the main article is deleted. The two struck out items are in category evetology but predate the the Eventology page. No vote on my behalf. --Salix alba (talk) 15:09, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I don't see at all how random element loses meaning if the eventology article is deleted. After all, it is just describing a random variable taking values in spaces more general than real numbers, and that is certainly a valuable notion used basically everywhere. See my extended comment on "random element" below. --C S (Talk) 23:31, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. I agree with all of the previous statements including those about extending the AfD to the other articles, for the same reasons that Ryan Reich has stated. MBob 23:52, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Pseudomathematics. Cedars 10:11, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Related articles

So, i'm also nominate subpages of eventological theory as non-notable and non-cited. [1]

1. Eventological language
2. Event-terrace
3. Eventological distribution
4. Glossary of eventology
5. Random element
6. Set of events and random set of events
7. Set of random events and random set of events

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Vladimir Volokhonsky (talk • contribs)

• • The last three contain no information regarding eventology. Although they lack sources, they discuss generally accepted terms in probability theory. I urge the nominator to withdraw the last three from further deletion consideration as they border on bad faith. B.Wind 15:39, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

• Hold the bus!!! piling article onto article into a catch-all nomination throughout a 24 hour period doesn't do justice to the original nomination and to the people who have to check each of these out. Please don't change the nominations so radically over a period if you want any serious discussion with this (or any other) AfD. B.Wind 15:00, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, it wasn't piling on, but the changes over 24 hours are a bit disconcerting. B.Wind 15:57, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete, except possibly random element which looks like it almost might make sense if I spent more time thinking about it. The definition of random element is claimed to be due to Maurice Frechet, but I can't tell how popular it might be. Maybe I'm piling on ... but, the other nominated articles seem to use a lot of words to not actually say anything that I can grasp; they have general resemblance to topics in topology, measure theory, etc. but fail to indicate how the idea is unique. linas 19:05, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

• Do not delete random element, as it is a real term and topic. The Frechet paper is available here (institution subscription maybe necessary). My mathematical French is not so good that I can read this very quickly, but it's basically about random variables with values in metric spaces. In it, he uses the term "random element", and it looks like he's using the term basically as in the random element article. However that is just defining what I believe most people would nowadays just call a random variable (or measurable function with respect to the appropriate algebras). The modern use of "random element" is apparently not quite the same as what Frechet would call it, for example, see the Springer encyclopedia entry. That entry makes it clear that there is indeed something new here, e.g., random element with value in a Banach space is not the same definition as random variable, but involves the dual space. So random element should be rewritten to reflect correct usage, history of the term, and the relevant math content. --C S (Talk) 23:05, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
  • I think the dual space is what the Set of events and random set of events is about, it describes a form of duality between two ways of interpereting the phenomena. --Salix alba (talk) 20:54, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
  • I've cleaned up the article and incorporated some info from the Springer link. I strongly recommend people go and check out the new version. --C S (Talk) 01:54, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
    • Whats your opinion on the last two, are they similarly salvagable, at first glance the mathematics seems sound. (actually the same article)--Salix alba (talk) 20:49, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
      • I don't think they have anything really going for them (or it, since they are both the same). Basically some definitions are given, and they appear ok, although it's not clear what the applications are (note: it appears there is at least one typo in the last half, but it's hard to tell, since I don't understand what's happening in the later half of the article). Also, the definitions are basically standard - special cases of the notion of random variable. So I suspect the mathematics is already essentially in the body of Wikipedia, whereas the terminology is non-standard. Random element has a couple of things going for it: 1) it's a real term with some history behind it 2) Usage seems predominantly for random variables taking values in Banach spaces, with a good amount of literature on this topic and using the term "random element". --C S (Talk) 06:15, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Just curious, is there any connection between Complex Event Processing (CEP) and Eventology. Thanks--67.52.61.50 17:44, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

OK, i think i'm really carried away with this AfD, because my own statistics experience in psychology allow me only suspect something wrong and para-scientifical in eventological articles... We deleted eventology and some co-articles in ru.wikipedia because of little notability, even for experts.--Vladimir Volokhonsky 06:02, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm not convinced that it is para-scientifical, just applying a novel approach. Possibly the biggest problem is the name. If the article had been called the theory of random events it would not seem so suspect.--Salix alba (talk) 20:49, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

• relist when consensus on article to be listed is reached. --Salix alba (talk) 20:49, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
• Comment. Many thanks for very useful discussion. I am going to rename

1. Eventology $\to$ Theory of random events
2. Eventological language $\to$ Language of random event theory
3. Eventological distribution $\to$ Distribution of a set of events
4. Glossary of eventology $\to$ Glossary of random event theory
5. Set of random events and random set of events $\to$ Duality between a set of random events and a random set of events

- Helgus 22:22, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

• • I don't think the renaming is going to resolve the concerns people have raised. --C S (Talk) 06:15, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.