View source for Testwiki:Village pump (technical)/Archive 60

{{Wikipedia:Village pump/Archive header}}

== Drop-down box for reasons on moving pages ==

Is it possible/desired in the software or through javascript? –[[user:xeno|<b style="font-family:verdana; color:black;">xeno</b>]] [[user talk:xeno|<sup style="color:black; font-family:verdana;">talk</sup>]] 13:46, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
*It would save me a couple of seconds on each move, but generally, there are not very many easy reasons to move a page. Most require a more detailed reasoning. What would you put in the drop down except "Capitalization" "Spelling error" and "per discussion at ___"? =- [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm]]|[[User talk:MacGyverMagic|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 10:02, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
*:Personally, I wanted one for [[WP:Userbox migration|Userbox migration]]. Another one would be "Fulfilling [[WP:Requested moves|move request]]". Per MOSTM. etc. =) –[[user:xeno|<b style="font-family:verdana; color:black;">xeno</b>]] [[user talk:xeno|<sup style="color:black; font-family:verdana;">talk</sup>]] 17:13, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

== PDF version ==

Hi. In the spanish wikipedia village pump somebody [http://es.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Caf%C3%A9/Portal/Archivo/Ayuda/Actual&oldid=25879054 asked] about PDF versions in english wikipedia. Registered users can see a ''PDF version'' in ''Toolbox'', at left. But IPs can not. In spanish wikipedia users and IPs can do it. Why not do the same thing in english wikipedia?

I went to [[Wikipedia:IRC channels|your IRC channel]], but my proposal was not supported:

{{monodiv|1=
(17:47:05) *******: XalD: Just because es does something, en doesn't have to do it too

(17:47:11) *******: different languages do different things

(17:47:15) xald: that is what the IP is asking in es.wikipedia village pump
}}

I know that es: and en: are different projects, but if users can use the button, why not the IP? You just only need modify the Mediawiki Toolbox message. Thanks, ~~[[User:XalD|×α£]][[User talk:XalD|đ]]~~<sup>[[:es:Usuario:XalD|es]]</sup> 23:15, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

:Because it's not yet enabled on enwiki. I know there was talk of doing it soon, after it's confirmed that it will scale ok to that many anonymous users. <b style="color:#c22">^</b>[[User:^demon|<b style="color:#000">demon</b>]][[User_talk:^demon|<sup style="color:#c22">[omg plz]</sup>]]&nbsp;<em style="font-size:10px;">15:45, 27 April 2009 (UTC)</em>

== Bot naming policy ==

A discussion has begun on whether to change into a suggestion the current requirement that bot accounts incorporate the word "bot". Please comment at [[Wikipedia talk:Bot Approvals Group#BAG and bot policy with regards to names]]. Thanks. [[User:Anomie|Anomie]][[User talk:Anomie|⚔]] 12:18, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

== Temporary watchlisting ==

Is it possible (with scripts, monobook.css manipulation, etc., I don't know) to temporarily watchlist a page so that it would, for example, only appear in my watchlist for a day or a week? --[[User:Conti|Conti]]|[[User talk:Conti|✉]] 14:39, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

== Template problem ==

This may not be where I address this. But the template at the top of [[Lois Lane]] looks weird. I'm sure Wikipedia wants it to be grammatically correct.[[User:Vchimpanzee|<span style="color:Green;">Vchimpanzee</span>]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[User talk:Vchimpanzee|<span style="color: orange"> talk</span>]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Vchimpanzee|<span style="color: purple">contributions</span>]]&nbsp;'''·''' 21:19, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
:Added "date=" to the first argument. Separate issue; is that template needed? Nothing egregious leapt out at me. --[[User:AndrewHowse|AndrewHowse]] ([[User talk:AndrewHowse|talk]]) 21:33, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
::I haven't read the article closely enough to see what needs fixing, but the template is still grammatically incorrect.[[User:Vchimpanzee|<span style="color:Green;">Vchimpanzee</span>]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[User talk:Vchimpanzee|<span style="color: orange"> talk</span>]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Vchimpanzee|<span style="color: purple">contributions</span>]]&nbsp;'''·''' 21:44, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
:::Well spotted; you pass. Seriously, [[User:AndrewHowse|some fool]] forgot to save his/her edit. --[[User:AndrewHowse|AndrewHowse]] ([[User talk:AndrewHowse|talk]]) 21:57, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
== Image uploading ==

I was uploading a new version of [[:Image:Air Canada Jazz.svg]], and the changes I made only seemed to take effect in the thumbnail at the top (although not in the thumbnail of the file history). When looked at the SVG itself by clicking on it, it was exactly the same as the previous version. This can be confirmed by opening it in a text editor. Only when I reuploaded the file, the change took effect, and then only in the past version, with the latest file the same as the original. Am I missing something, or is this an (un)known bug? [[User:Paranomia|Paranomia]] ([[User talk:Paranomia|talk]]) 22:36, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
:This has happened to me a few times before. After you upload, the file is updated but your browser does not refresh the image on your screen because it is stored on your cache. Bypassing your cache fixes the problem. You can find browser-specific instructions for bypassing your cache at [[Wikipedia:Bypass your cache]]. Also another note, Wikipedia also has a cache. You can purge that as well by typing <tt>?&action=purge</tt> at the end of the URL. More info [[Wikipedia:Purge#For_images|here]] if you're interested.--[[User:penubag|'''<span style="background:#00CCFF;color:#0066FF;font-size:84%">&nbsp;penubag&nbsp;</span>''']] ([[User talk:penubag|talk]]) 06:27, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
::Heh, I just realised that and was about to post back here reporting my mistake. Thanks anyway. [[User:Paranomia|Paranomia]] ([[User talk:Paranomia|talk]]) 23:44, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

== User creation dates ==

When did user creation dates begin to be recorded? Typically this may be found at [[Special:ListUsers]]. However, the date is not available for my account. I vaguely remember creating the account a long time ago, but have no idea even which year it was.  I was inactive for a few years, and I am sure that I made contributions before my first recorded edit, as well. Dates seem to be available for much of 2001, which makes sense as the the project began then. Was there initially a period where dates were not recorded? Or were some records lost for some reason? Just curious and it has been bugging me for a while. Thanks, [[User:Bendono|Bendono]] ([[User talk:Bendono|talk]]) 08:20, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
:The use creation logs only go back to September 2005, when the feature was added. The dates on ListUsers are new, and (for users predating the creation log) seem to just be the date of the user's first edit. [[User talk:Algebraist|Algebraist]] 08:29, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

::Thanks for the response. If the above is accurate, then under what circumstances would an active editor, such as [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AListUsers&username=Bendono&group=&limit=1 myself], not have a recorded user creation date? I have almost 12,000 edits, but none of them are being picked up as an artificially generated creation date. [[User:Bendono|Bendono]] ([[User talk:Bendono|talk]]) 10:04, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
:::I'm not sure, this might be possible if you registered before September 2005, but had not made any edits before that time, or possibly even if you had made a few edits between January 2001 and January 2002, when "Phase II of the software" was deployed. The original phase I software (January 2001-January 2002) was known to not accurately keep records of all the edits, so edits you made at that time might not be listed in your edithistory, and thus not have been picked up by the deployment of the 2005 functionality. I can ask the developers if you really want to know. For more info see [[History of Wikipedia]]. --[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 10:48, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

<pre>
< thedj> TimStarling: can it be that users registered before 2005, but with 0 edits until 2006, did not get, and still don't have a registration date for their useraccount ?
< Splarka> hmm, yes, I remember something like that
< TimStarling> yes
< Splarka> if their first edit was after the new user log was implemented they don't get a guessed date
</pre>
I asked. --[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 11:02, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

:Thanks for the confirmation. I suppose that may be the case. Regards, [[User:Bendono|Bendono]] ([[User talk:Bendono|talk]]) 01:30, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

== Internal error ==

FWIW, I just got an internal error when submitting an edit. I've never seen that one before:
<pre>
LBFactory_Multi::newExternalLB: Unknown cluster "cluster22"

Backtrace:

#0 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.5/includes/db/LBFactory_Multi.php(139): LBFactory_Multi->newExternalLB('cluster22', false)
#1 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.5/includes/ExternalStoreDB.php(31): LBFactory_Multi->getExternalLB('cluster22')
#2 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.5/includes/ExternalStoreDB.php(36): ExternalStoreDB->getLoadBalancer('cluster22')
#3 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.5/includes/ExternalStoreDB.php(97): ExternalStoreDB->getSlave('cluster22')
#4 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.5/includes/ExternalStoreDB.php(69): ExternalStoreDB->fetchBlob('cluster22', '10106', false)
#5 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.5/includes/ExternalStore.php(31): ExternalStoreDB->fetchFromURL('DB://cluster22/...')
#6 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.5/includes/Revision.php(725): ExternalStore::fetchFromURL('DB://cluster22/...')
#7 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.5/includes/Revision.php(907): Revision::getRevisionText(Object(stdClass))
#8 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.5/includes/Revision.php(618): Revision->loadText()
#9 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.5/includes/Revision.php(600): Revision->getRawText()
#10 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.5/includes/Article.php(477): Revision->getText(2)
#11 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.5/includes/Article.php(339): Article->fetchContent(0)
#12 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.5/includes/Article.php(226): Article->loadContent()
#13 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.5/includes/EditPage.php(953): Article->getContent()
#14 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.5/includes/EditPage.php(2483): EditPage->internalAttemptSave(false, false)
#15 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.5/includes/EditPage.php(449): EditPage->attemptSave()
#16 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.5/includes/EditPage.php(340): EditPage->edit()
#17 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.5/includes/Wiki.php(510): EditPage->submit()
#18 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.5/includes/Wiki.php(63): MediaWiki->performAction(Object(OutputPage), Object(Article), Object(Title), Object(User), Object(WebRequest))
#19 /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.5/index.php(116): MediaWiki->initialize(Object(Title), Object(Article), Object(OutputPage), Object(User), Object(WebRequest))
#20 /usr/local/apache/common-local/live-1.5/index.php(3): require('/usr/local/apac...')
#21 {main}
</pre>
[[User talk:Amalthea|<span style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant:small-caps;color:#823824;font-weight:normal">Amalthea</span>]] 09:46, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

:Fixed. -- [[User:Tim Starling|Tim Starling]] ([[User talk:Tim Starling|talk]]) 10:23, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

== Expand two/three letter project code into full langage? ==

Is there a template or an otherwise clever way to expand a two/three-letter language code into the full language? I.e. pl = Polish, etc. Thanks, –[[user:xeno|<b style="font-family:verdana; color:black;">xeno</b>]] [[user talk:xeno|<sup style="color:black; font-family:verdana;">talk</sup>]] 14:04, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
:Yes {{tl|ISO 639 name pl}} gives "{{ISO 639 name|pl}}<!-- Polish -->". I am also working on a common template {{tl|ISO 639 name}}. So <nowiki>{{ISO 639 name|pl}}</nowiki> also gives "{{ISO 639 name|pl}}". But it's not completely finished yet. &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 14:11, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
::Sexcellent! Were you doing this for a particular reason? I'm currently working up a standard iw-ref template and would hate to duplicate efforts. –[[user:xeno|<b style="font-family:verdana; color:black;">xeno</b>]] [[user talk:xeno|<sup style="color:black; font-family:verdana;">talk</sup>]] 14:25, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
:::I remember we used to have a lot of similar systems on meta ... Make sure you don't do any unnecessary duplicate work :D --[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 14:34, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
:::Okay, let's work together xeno ;) &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 15:01, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
::::See [[Template:Iw-ref]] which uses your [[Template:ISO 639 name]]. I have taken this on for the French Communes wikiproject, but also to standardize [[:Category:Interwiki translation templates]]. –[[user:xeno|<b style="font-family:verdana; color:black;">xeno</b>]] [[user talk:xeno|<sup style="color:black; font-family:verdana;">talk</sup>]] 15:05, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

:::::interesting.  out of curiosity, is there a template that translates the name of region, nation or people into its adjectival form (which is usually the same as its language form?  for instance, Germany->German; Asia->Asian; Arab->Arabic...? <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Ludwigs2|Ludwigs2]] ([[User talk:Ludwigs2|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Ludwigs2|contribs]]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

::::::You would think that they would be in [[:Category:Adjectival and demonym templates]], but those are really just lists. ---'''''—&nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]<span style="color:darkblue">&nbsp;</span>'''''<sup>[[User talk:Gadget850|''talk'']]</sup> 18:14, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

:::::::Interesting.  I can find the adjectival forms 'Saskatchewanian', 'Klingon' and 'Lilliputian', but not the ones for people from Belgium or the Democratic Republic of the Congo.  that's ''gotta'' say something about wikipedia.

:::::::I suppose I could write up a template (just be a huge switch statement, with the obvious maintenance problems).  would there be any use for that, do you think, aside from the one use I have for it?  --[[User_talk:Ludwigs2|<span style="color:darkblue;font-weight:bold">Ludwigs</span><span style="color:green;font-weight:bold">2</span>]] 19:23, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

::::::::Would it be reasonable to use the country data templates (ie: {{tl|Country data Poland}}), or to set up a similar scheme, perhaps? &ndash; <span style="font-family: Garamond">[[User:Luna Santin|<span style="color:#1E90FF;">'''Luna Santin'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Luna Santin|talk]])</span> 20:45, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

:::::::::define reasonable.  {{=)|biggrin}}  for starters, I'd have to go to each and every country data template {{tl|country data England}}, {{tl|country data Argentina}}, {{tl|country data Australia}}, etc. - all of which are fully protected pages - and request the addition of a new parameter/data combo.  well, I suppose I could get an admin to AWB it...  It would make sense to do it that way, I'd just want to research it some more, first, so we don't screw up half a gazillion flag templates in the process.--[[User_talk:Ludwigs2|<span style="color:darkblue;font-weight:bold">Ludwigs</span><span style="color:green;font-weight:bold">2</span>]] 21:18, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

::::::::::That is certainly a barrier. :p If we do add it, we can at least be pretty sure it won't change or need to be changed very often, but I certainly understand the hesitation. &ndash; <span style="font-family: Garamond">[[User:Luna Santin|<span style="color:#1E90FF;">'''Luna Santin'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Luna Santin|talk]])</span> 06:25, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

== Seamlessly collapsing portions of a table ==

I am attempting to seamlessly collapse portions of a table, found here:

*[[Template_talk:2009_swine_flu_outbreak_table#Collapsing_countries_which_have_no_confirmed_cases_yet]]

anyone is welcome to tinker with this. Thanks in advance. [[User:Ikip|Ikip]] ([[User talk:Ikip|talk]]) 02:40, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
== I hate underscores in links ==

Is there any script that can automatically strip internal links of underscores when saving the page? –[[user:xeno|<b style="font-family:verdana; color:black;">xeno</b>]] [[user talk:xeno|<sup style="color:black; font-family:verdana;">talk</sup>]] 22:36, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

:I'm sure that AWB can do this, but not exactly what you want. I use [[User:Cameltrader/Advisor.js]] for a lot of cleanup— perhaps this feature could be added. ---'''''—&nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]<span style="color:darkblue">&nbsp;</span>'''''<sup>[[User talk:Gadget850|''talk'']]</sup> 23:40, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

::Sorry I didn't make myself clear, I meant maybe some kind of greasy monkies script that would strip the underscores on the fly as I'm saving the page... –[[user:xeno|<b style="font-family:verdana; color:black;">xeno</b>]] [[user talk:xeno|<sup style="color:black; font-family:verdana;">talk</sup>]] 23:44, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
:::I don't think it's a good idea to do it automatically, right now on this page there are at least 2 signatures with <code>user_talk</code>, and in articles some links may legitimately contain underscore as well (say, as a link to [[FILE_ID.DIZ]]). —[[User:Alex Smotrov|AlexSm]] 15:53, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
::::Yea, you're probably right. I was hoping that there was some script that could intercept when I pasted a link with underscores and strip them. Probably too much effort for too little gain =) –[[user:xeno|<b style="font-family:verdana; color:black;">xeno</b>]] [[user talk:xeno|<sup style="color:black; font-family:verdana;">talk</sup>]] 15:59, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
::::It wouldn't realy break anyting though, as far as MediaWiki is concerned spaces and underscores are treated the same way in internal links (or rater all spaces are converted to underscores in the resulting HTML markup) so  [[FILE_ID.DIZ]] and [[FILE ID.DIZ]] are both links to the exact same article. --[[User:Sherool|Sherool]] <span style="font-size:75%">[[User talk:Sherool|(talk)]]</span> 17:46, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
:::::Well, I didn't say "break", just that it's not nice to change it automatically: in articles it might be intentional, and on talk pages it would creates unnecessary changes, resulting in more complex diffs. —[[User:Alex Smotrov|AlexSm]] 16:27, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Xeno, if you're willing to select some text and then press a button, you might want to try my script [[user:js/urldecoder]] with extra option urlDecoderIntLinks=true, although it does much more than just replacing _ to spaces. —[[User:Alex Smotrov|AlexSm]] 16:27, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
:I think this is exactly what I am looking for. Thank you. –[[user:xeno|<b style="font-family:verdana; color:black;">xeno</b>]] [[user talk:xeno|<sup style="color:black; font-family:verdana;">talk</sup>]] 14:32, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
::{{tick}} You are a god among men. cheers, –[[user:xeno|<b style="font-family:verdana; color:black;">xeno</b>]] [[user talk:xeno|<sup style="color:black; font-family:verdana;">talk</sup>]] 14:37, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

== backup ==

Does anyone know if wikipedia is backed up to a [[electromagnetic pulse]] resistant repositary? [[User:Andrewjlockley|Andrewjlockley]] ([[User talk:Andrewjlockley|talk]]) 23:16, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

:No.  A well placed EMP or asteroid strike would involve a degree of unrecoverable losses.  A large fraction of the data would eventually be recoverable via various mirrors and dumps and such, but doing that would be a side effect of our distributed information culture and not really part of a data protection plan per se.  [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] ([[User talk:Dragons flight|talk]]) 23:34, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
::An EMP attack is pretty likely on a 100year timescale.  There are many datacentres which offer pretty cheap EMP-resistant storage.  At the very least, an antipodeal backup should be provided to ensure that the strike doesn't destroy all of the sites.  [[Databarracks]] is one such UK provider. [[User:Andrewjlockley|Andrewjlockley]] ([[User talk:Andrewjlockley|talk]]) 09:09, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:::Ha.  Yes an eight-year-old organization should plan for a "100 year" event that has never happened in Florida (the main server farm) and pretty much can't be expected to happen save for nuclear war and the end of civilization.  Backups are good, distributed backups are better, but let's not get silly about this.  [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] ([[User talk:Dragons flight|talk]]) 09:32, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

::::Don't forget we also have a nice backup on the toolserver in Germany, so the disaster would have to take out Florida and Germany to be successful. '''[[User:MBisanz|<span style='color: #FFFF00;background-color: #0000FF;'>MBisanz</span>]]''' <sup>[[User talk:MBisanz|<span style='color: #FFA500;'>talk</span>]]</sup> 09:46, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:::::<small>Pssst: none of enwiki's text actually goes to Germany.  [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] ([[User talk:Dragons flight|talk]]) 10:18, 24 April 2009 (UTC)</small>

::::::Neither do big chunks of the user table, or any deleted/oversighted revisions, or any media AFAIK. The toolserver is probably not a very useful backup mechanism: we'd have all 280 million revision entries, but no associated text! [[User:Happy-melon|<b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b>]] 10:39, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:::::::There's a full copy of everything at the Toolserver/Amsterdam-data-center except for images; toolserver users just don't have access to everything for privacy reasons. Toolserver users have access to views of the normal database tables, the text is on [https://wiki.toolserver.org/view/Servers clematis]. <span style="font-family:Broadway;">[[User:Mr.Z-man|Mr.]][[User talk:Mr.Z-man|'''''Z-'''man'']]</span> 22:51, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
::::No, but [[Chicxulub crater|this]] was fairly close. [[User:SharkD|SharkD]] ([[User talk:SharkD|talk]]) 04:11, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
:They're [http://techblog.wikimedia.org/2009/04/wmf-needs-additional-datacenter-space/ looking] to build a complete backup datacentre to ''run'' the site (not just store it) somewhere in the northeastern US.  I don't know if that will incorporate database slaves that would retain the site content in the event of the unrecoverable loss of the database servers in Florida.  But in any case a huge amount of our 'current' content is stored in the memcaches of the Apache servers, which would definitely be duplicated 'up north', and on the squid servers in Florida, Amsterdam and Seoul; those are roughly evenly-spaced around the world.  Someone would just have to write an 'unparser' to convert from HTML back to wikitext.  And of course, anyone who's downloaded a copy of the database dump is storing a complete copy of the most important part of our data; that could easily be restored if necessary.  If an EMP were to hit right now, we'd probably just be set back to August 2008, when the last full enwiki dump was completed, or to March 2009 with the last current-version dump (and a lot of messy licensing issues on who to credit going from one to the other).  I'd say that between copies of the dumps, what data ''is'' replicated to the toolserver, and whatever's lying around on Brion's USB key ({{mono|:D}}) we could probably recover pretty much everything up to a month or so ago; the most likely things to be lost are user preferences/watchlists, user ''passwords'' (which could be a bit of a bummer) and deleted pages.  The oversight table would almost certainly be lost (bah humbug {{mono|:D}}). But as DragonFlight says, thanks to the information age, it would be a tall order to actually ''permanently lose'' much 'public' content, even in an end-of-the-world scenario. [[User:Happy-melon|<b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b>]] 10:39, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

::The Seoul cluster, which was always the smallest of the three, is being decommissioned (or already was).  It was part of a space sharing agreement with Yahoo that is ending / ended.  Also, the last full history text dump of enwiki was more than 2 years ago, and not in 2008.  We've had aborted dumps, partial dumps, and corrupt dumps since then.  Yes we could get off the ground with the current versions dump (from March) and stub-meta-history for author lists and copyright purposes (last completed in October), but if an act of God destroyed Florida there would probably be a lot of article history that we never recover.  [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] ([[User talk:Dragons flight|talk]]) 11:02, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:::Ah, was it 2006 not 2008? Interesting also about the Seoul cluster; I wasn't aware of that. They're still [http://wikitech.wikimedia.org/view/Server_roles#Seoul listed] on wikitech, so I guess the curtain's still up for the moment.
:::Actually, with the current versions dump from John Smith's computer, plus the revision and logging tables from the toolserver, we'd have all the info we needed for copyright purposes: a text to work from, and a complete list of its authors.  So it would just set us back to March, and we'd have to delink everything before that magic 'first version' in page histories. It would be wierd, but not end-of-the-world. [[User:Happy-melon|<b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b>]] 11:29, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
::::I think it's entirely reasonable to protect WP from the consequences of a nuclear/EMP war.  I don't think distributing the data would be sufficient.  I think that a nuclear-hardened backup should be specifically created. [[User:Andrewjlockley|Andrewjlockley]] ([[User talk:Andrewjlockley|talk]]) 12:17, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
:::::If you want to put up the time and money to create such a backup, then you are certainly welcome to copy any and all materials from [[m:Database dumps]] to any repository you wish.  As for Wikimedia working on such a project, I think it would be a waste of resources.  [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] ([[User talk:Dragons flight|talk]]) 12:46, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
::::::Besides, would there be anybody left to read WP after a nuclear war? Let alone restore it? [[User:Yintan|<span style="color:Black">'''Yinta'''</span><span style="color:DarkRed">'''ɳ&nbsp;'''</span>]] 21:46, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
:We have most of our servers in a [[Florida|hurricane area]] and at [[Amsterdam|sea level]], and we're worried about an EMP? <span style="font-family:Broadway;">[[User:Mr.Z-man|Mr.]][[User talk:Mr.Z-man|'''''Z-'''man'']]</span> 22:50, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
::What's the size of the backup?  Bearing in mind that there are already easily accessible nuclear-hardened stores, what's the argument for not using them? [[User:Andrewjlockley|Andrewjlockley]] ([[User talk:Andrewjlockley|talk]]) 02:14, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
:::can you download the whole think to DVD's?  they shouldn't be affected by an emp.  Is anyone doing this already?
::::Dye-based media such as CDs and DVDs have a limited shelf-life, especially when exposed to light. Not sure whether magneto-optical devices such as minidisks (which have a longer shelf-life) are also susceptible to EMP. I believe Sony is developing/has developed a high-capacity storage medium based on this technology, but intended for institutional needs. [[User:SharkD|SharkD]] ([[User talk:SharkD|talk]]) 04:32, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Concerns about Wikimedia's disaster recovery infrastructure should be directed to people who actually know what they're talking about, rather than random Wikipedians who read this page. You should also do your homework before asking anywhere. A lot of the information being thrown around here is third-hand "I heard it somewhere" kind of information. &mdash; [[User:Werdna|<span style="font-weight: bold; color: #404080">Werdna</span>]]&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;[[User talk:Werdna|<span style="color: #8080b0">talk</span>]] 13:50, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
:To where should they be directed? [[User:Andrewjlockley|Andrewjlockley]] ([[User talk:Andrewjlockley|talk]]) 23:16, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

== Vulnerability ==

The problem has been raised (in a very roundabout way, unfortunately) that '''short pages''' may be especially vulnerable to defamatory attacks, since material added to them is likely to show up on Google search result pages, and continue to do so (because of the Google cache) even after it has been deleted from Wikipedia. I don't entirely see this myself, but if anyone can add any enlightenment on the problem, please comment at [[WT:WikiProject Disambiguation/Vulnerability to attacks]].--[[User:Kotniski|Kotniski]] ([[User talk:Kotniski|talk]]) 10:54, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

== Mysterious malfuctioning redirect ==

: re:  {{las|Epoch (geology)}}

Can someone figure out why the redirect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epoch_(geology) fails to forward one to the proper page... and fix it, please. // [[Special:Contributions/24.62.190.234|24.62.190.234]] ([[User talk:24.62.190.234|talk]]) 20:25, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
:{{worksforme}} , what's it doing for you? –[[user:xeno|<b style="font-family:verdana; color:black;">xeno</b>]] [[user talk:xeno|<sup style="color:black; font-family:verdana;">talk</sup>]] 20:26, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

::It redirects to [[Series (stratigraphy)]]. If you consider that this is the wrong page, then you need to let us know what is proper. ---'''''—&nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]<span style="color:darkblue">&nbsp;</span>'''''<sup>[[User talk:Gadget850|''talk'']]</sup> 20:40, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
== code broken on [[Rastafari movement]] ==

If I try to go to [[Rastafari movement]] I get this: 
<link rel="stylesheet" href="/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Print.c 
at the top of the page with the usual background but if I click [[Rastafari]] which redirects to Rastafari movement to works ok...

just though i should mention it. <span style="border:1px solid #000000;background:# 787878">[[User:rdunn|<span style="color:# 787878;background:# 41653D;">&nbsp;rdunn</span>]][[User_talk:rdunn|<span style="color:# 41653D;">PLIB&nbsp;</span>]]</span> 14:35, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

:I see no problem. Probably a caching issue. Try [[WP:PURGE|purging]] the page. <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — [[User:Edokter|<span style="color: #008;"><b><i>E</i>dokter</b></span>]] • [[User_talk:Edokter|<span style="color: #080;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 14:48, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

:: I tried that already but it didnt work. I just kicked the computer and it loaded correctly afterward... <span style="border:1px solid #000000;background:# 787878">[[User:rdunn|<span style="color:# 787878;background:# 41653D;">&nbsp;rdunn</span>]][[User_talk:rdunn|<span style="color:# 41653D;">PLIB&nbsp;</span>]]</span> 14:51, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
:::The lesson here, boys and girls, is that violence is always the answer! [[User:EVula|EVula]] <span style="color: #999;">// [[User talk:EVula|talk]] // [[User:EVula/admin|<span style="color: #366;">&#9775;</span>]] //</span> 15:05, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

::::That's the true engineer's approach. If you can't fix it, hit it with a hammer!&nbsp;–&nbsp;[[User:Ukexpat|ukexpat]] ([[User talk:Ukexpat|talk]]) 15:06, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Bug in file history ==

The page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:H1N1_map.svg
shows a bug in the file history.

The url of the links to each version in the date/time column are out of sync with the displayed
date/time and with the displayed images.  e.g. the date 13:33, 29 April 2009 links to a file with 1353 in the url. The 13:05, 29 April 2009 date links to a file with 1333 in the url and so on down the list. [[User:Charvest|Charvest]] ([[User talk:Charvest|talk]]) 14:08, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

:Those are actually linking to the correct files. The way we currently name archive file versions is a little odd: it's got the timestamp of when the file was ''replaced'' rather than its original upload date. --[[User:Brion VIBBER|brion]] ([[User talk:Brion VIBBER|talk]]) 16:11, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

::That's an insane system. Thanks for the reply. [[User:Charvest|Charvest]] ([[User talk:Charvest|talk]]) 16:37, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

:::Yes, yes it is. :) --[[User:Brion VIBBER|brion]] ([[User talk:Brion VIBBER|talk]]) 14:35, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Image toggling? ==

Does the English Wikipedia currently have a method for toggling between images?  I'd like to add a button that toggles between two images of identical size for an article at FAC, the [[Euclidean algorithm]].  The idea is to allow the reader to shut off a GIF animation by replacing it with a still image of the same size.  An FAC reviewer suggested that the animation, although helpful for understanding the algorithm, distracted them from reading the article.  I do not want to convert the GIF into an OGG movie.  The frames of the animation are available as SVGs.  Thanks for your suggestions, [[User:Proteins|Proteins]] ([[User talk:Proteins|talk]]) 13:29, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== More than 20 groups please ==

Hey, an editor has spoken to me of his difficulty in creating a template for the singles of [[Prince (musician)|Prince]] because the template does not allow anymore than 20 groups. Can this please be increased, it seems harmless enough. Thanks. — [[User:Realist2|<span style="color:#4173E4">'''''R'''''</span>]][[User_talk:Realist2|<span style="color:#D80B0B"><sup>'''''2'''''</sup></span>]] 16:14, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

: There's some info on this at [[Template talk:Navbox#More than 20 groups]]. --[[User talk:Amalthea|<span style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant:small-caps;color:#823824;font-weight:normal">Amalthea</span>]] 16:46, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Sorting navbox columns? ==

Is there a way to sort navbox columns in a way similar to a sortable wikitable? There is a an ongoing debate regarding the table at [[Template:2009 US swine flu outbreak table]], some people feel that it should be sorted alpha by state, while others argue to sort by number of cases. If this could be made sortable it would solve the problem. 

I know some editors here were able to help out yesterday on the table for the main [[2009 swine flu outbreak]]  article, so I'm hoping someone can give us a hand on the US article as well. Thanks! [[User:Wine Guy|<span style="color:#000080;">'''Wine Guy'''</span>]] [[User_talk:Wine Guy|<span style="color:#000000;"><small>Talk</small></span>]] 17:05, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

:Many thanks to [[User_talk:Ludwigs2|<span style="color:darkblue;font-weight:bold">Ludwigs</span><span style="color:green;font-weight:bold">2</span>]] for your help!! [[User:Wine Guy|<span style="color:#000080;">'''Wine Guy'''</span>]] [[User_talk:Wine Guy|<span style="color:#000000;"><small>Talk</small></span>]] 19:45, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

== Comment requested ==

Comment is requested at [[Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/ListasBot 5]], regarding whether or not there should be a bot that makes non-visible changes to {{tl|WikiProjectBanners}} and {{tl|WikiProjectBannerShell}} templates.  The fixes would be made so that the KingbotK plugin for AWB would be able to properly handle the pages.  [[User:Mikaey|Matt]] ([[User talk:Mikaey|talk]]) 17:42, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
== Tool for editing and viewing wiki markup, offline? ==

I use Linux (Ubuntu 8.04, Hardy Heron).  I would like to be able to copy and save the plain text versions of Wikipedia articles (with the wiki markup) and edit and view versions of the articles at home.  I want to practice editing tables, and so forth, without having to use the Sandbox.  How can I do this?  Thanks very much! [[User:Whatever404|Whatever404]] ([[User talk:Whatever404|talk]])

: Set up a local MediaWiki: [[mw:Installation]]. [[User talk:Amalthea|<span style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant:small-caps;color:#823824;font-weight:normal">Amalthea</span>]] 12:47, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

::That sounds like fun- but can I spoil the party and ask, '''how'''. And if that question is too naive, how closely does the [http://www.turnkeylinux.org/appliances/mediawiki Turnkey Ubuntu version] emulate our classes and settings, which are needed for table work? It does sound like a useful exercise. --[[User:ClemRutter|ClemRutter]] ([[User talk:ClemRutter|talk]]) 13:32, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

:::If you mean "classes" as in <tt>&lt;table class="wikitable" …</tt>, you'll just want to make sure you copy [[MediaWiki:Common.css]], [[MediaWiki:Monobook.css]], etc. to the same title on your wiki. — [[User talk:CharlotteWebb|CharlotteWebb]] 19:14, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

::::Thanks, everyone.  Charlotte: if I install the items you mentioned, does that mean that the wiki environment on my computer will function in the same way as Wikipedia?  [[User:Whatever404|Whatever404]] ([[User talk:Whatever404|talk]]) 00:39, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:::::Just adding my thanks for a simple answer to a question I had not yet asked --[[User:ClemRutter|ClemRutter]] ([[User talk:ClemRutter|talk]]) 12:25, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

:Whatever404: I see that you have no subpages in your user space yet. The usual way we test things is to create test pages under our own user page. Here is a link to your first personal test page: [[Special:Mypage/Test1|/Test1]]. Numbering your test pages usually is a good idea, since they tend to become more over time. I created my /Test57 some day ago... And I hope you have discovered the {{keypress|<big>Show preview</big>}} button when you edit pages? 
:--[[User:Davidgothberg|David Göthberg]] ([[User talk:Davidgothberg|talk]]) 16:01, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

::Thank you, David, but I was interested to edit tables in ways that would probably only be useful to me, and would probably not be used in articles.  Some of these edits are related to medical information that I would rather not make public.  I guess it would be a more appropriate thing to ask the Wikimedia developers but I didn't really know where to go, to do that.  Thanks.  [[User:Whatever404|Whatever404]] ([[User talk:Whatever404|talk]]) 16:53, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:::I'll add that there are times I'd love a lightweight, offline app that I can use to test out tables, templates, and other wikitext structures without editing directly into wikipedia.  it never actually occurred to me to set up a local wiki, and it sounds a bit like overkill.  but...  {{=)}}  --[[User_talk:Ludwigs2|<span style="color:darkblue;font-weight:bold">Ludwigs</span><span style="color:green;font-weight:bold">2</span>]] 17:22, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:::You could maintain the text & markup in whatever editor you like, copy and paste it into an edit window, and use the "Show preview" button to view the results. [[User:Ntsimp|Ntsimp]] ([[User talk:Ntsimp|talk]]) 14:39, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

::::yes, I know, but that doesn't actually qualify as 'offline'.  --[[User_talk:Ludwigs2|<span style="color:darkblue;font-weight:bold">Ludwigs</span><span style="color:green;font-weight:bold">2</span>]] 15:26, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

== Searching for an account with a suffix ==

Recently, Mammamia9905 has been blocked as a sockpuppet of Petergriffin9901. BaltoPat9902 was blocked earlier. Naturally, I'm interested in finding usernames that end in 9903 and 9904 so I can see what they've been up to. Can anyone think of a reasonable search method?&mdash;[[User:Kww|Kww]]([[User talk:Kww|talk]]) 12:10, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Not except for an exhaustive search. &mdash; [[User:Werdna|<span style="font-weight: bold; color: #404080">Werdna</span>]]&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;[[User talk:Werdna|<span style="color: #8080b0">talk</span>]] 13:28, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
:Sure, easy enough with grep and a list of usernames. The problem of course is that there are about 9 million usernames (9,577,482 in fact) on en.wiki, so any search of them not that's not optimized is a bit nasty. For your specific query, the raw data (all usernames on en.wiki) is available here: [[tools:~mzmcbride/all-users-2009-05-01.txt.gz]] (37 [[Megabytes|MB]]). I grepped the file for ".*990[0-9]$":
{{hidden|1=Usernames that end in 990[0-9]|2=
# [[User:03009902|03009902]]
# [[User:139906|139906]]
# [[User:899907|899907]]
# [[User:989scholar999999900|989scholar999999900]]
# [[User:A cedood9900|A cedood9900]]
# [[User:A009909|A009909]]
# [[User:A319903|A319903]]
# [[User:A77889900|A77889900]]
# [[User:ALISHA9906|ALISHA9906]]
# [[User:AS9900|AS9900]]
# [[User:Aabbhhiinnaavv119900|Aabbhhiinnaavv119900]]
# [[User:Aatish9900|Aatish9900]]
# [[User:Abhishek9900|Abhishek9900]]
# [[User:Abhishek9906|Abhishek9906]]
# [[User:Ace19905|Ace19905]]
# [[User:Ace9900|Ace9900]]
# [[User:Adam 909909|Adam 909909]]
# [[User:Adam9900|Adam9900]]
# [[User:Ahmed9906|Ahmed9906]]
# [[User:Alex9901|Alex9901]]
# [[User:Ali9900|Ali9900]]
# [[User:Amdg9903|Amdg9903]]
# [[User:Americanidol19904|Americanidol19904]]
# [[User:Amil9900|Amil9900]]
# [[User:Amy s9903|Amy s9903]]
# [[User:Andrew19903|Andrew19903]]
# [[User:Angelwz9907|Angelwz9907]]
# [[User:Ankit9900|Ankit9900]]
# [[User:Anna.9909|Anna.9909]]
# [[User:Annie9908|Annie9908]]
# [[User:Aquabug9902|Aquabug9902]]
# [[User:Ara 9905|Ara 9905]]
# [[User:Aracgx9900|Aracgx9900]]
# [[User:Ares9900|Ares9900]]
# [[User:Asdfasdf9900|Asdfasdf9900]]
# [[User:Ashfaq9903|Ashfaq9903]]
# [[User:Ashish9901|Ashish9901]]
# [[User:Ashu9900|Ashu9900]]
# [[User:Athena9908|Athena9908]]
# [[User:Avro;9900|Avro;9900]]
# [[User:Ay 9900|Ay 9900]]
# [[User:B9904|B9904]]
# [[User:BB99904|BB99904]]
# [[User:Balto9902|Balto9902]]
# [[User:Barbara9909|Barbara9909]]
# [[User:Bb9900|Bb9900]]
# [[User:Bbill9908|Bbill9908]]
# [[User:Bcs9902|Bcs9902]]
# [[User:Becca 19902|Becca 19902]]
# [[User:Bencas9900|Bencas9900]]
# [[User:Bigdog989900|Bigdog989900]]
# [[User:BlackHawk19900|BlackHawk19900]]
# [[User:Bloom9908|Bloom9908]]
# [[User:Bob889900|Bob889900]]
# [[User:Bob9900|Bob9900]]
# [[User:Bobinator9904|Bobinator9904]]
# [[User:Boetch99909|Boetch99909]]
# [[User:Bp9909|Bp9909]]
# [[User:Brandon09908|Brandon09908]]
# [[User:Brandyn19902|Brandyn19902]]
# [[User:Brendan9900|Brendan9900]]
# [[User:Bribri9904|Bribri9904]]
# [[User:Brodster9901|Brodster9901]]
# [[User:Brody9900|Brody9900]]
# [[User:Broncos9900|Broncos9900]]
# [[User:Burch959903|Burch959903]]
# [[User:Butterfly9900|Butterfly9900]]
# [[User:Butthead9900|Butthead9900]]
# [[User:Bvm.9900|Bvm.9900]]
# [[User:Bw9902|Bw9902]]
# [[User:Bw9903|Bw9903]]
# [[User:Bwayne9900|Bwayne9900]]
# [[User:C9900|C9900]]
# [[User:CHawks9909|CHawks9909]]
# [[User:CMable49907|CMable49907]]
# [[User:Canadarocks9900|Canadarocks9900]]
# [[User:Canhandle9903|Canhandle9903]]
# [[User:Cannons9905|Cannons9905]]
# [[User:Carlos9900|Carlos9900]]
# [[User:Carole9908|Carole9908]]
# [[User:Cassie9904|Cassie9904]]
# [[User:Chai9900|Chai9900]]
# [[User:Chances 9904|Chances 9904]]
# [[User:Chaos9900|Chaos9900]]
# [[User:Charizard9900|Charizard9900]]
# [[User:Charliep19904|Charliep19904]]
# [[User:Chazz9903|Chazz9903]]
# [[User:Che9908|Che9908]]
# [[User:Cheesedude9909|Cheesedude9909]]
# [[User:Chintu9900|Chintu9900]]
# [[User:Chris9908|Chris9908]]
# [[User:Chris9909|Chris9909]]
# [[User:Chrisroach9900|Chrisroach9900]]
# [[User:Ckidrvc9905|Ckidrvc9905]]
# [[User:Clearly9905|Clearly9905]]
# [[User:Clt9903|Clt9903]]
# [[User:Cmae 9903|Cmae 9903]]
# [[User:Connie9900|Connie9900]]
# [[User:Coolcat19900|Coolcat19900]]
# [[User:Cooldude9904|Cooldude9904]]
# [[User:Cooljohn9900|Cooljohn9900]]
# [[User:Cpx59901|Cpx59901]]
# [[User:Cricket19901|Cricket19901]]
# [[User:Crx19901|Crx19901]]
# [[User:Csst9906|Csst9906]]
# [[User:Cueball 9906|Cueball 9906]]
# [[User:Dalit19909|Dalit19909]]
# [[User:Dan9908|Dan9908]]
# [[User:Dancer9909|Dancer9909]]
# [[User:Danger9908|Danger9908]]
# [[User:Danny999909|Danny999909]]
# [[User:Davidfoster29906|Davidfoster29906]]
# [[User:Daysglory9901|Daysglory9901]]
# [[User:Death9901|Death9901]]
# [[User:Dell9909909|Dell9909909]]
# [[User:Demon9900|Demon9900]]
# [[User:Den19902|Den19902]]
# [[User:Dennis19900|Dennis19900]]
# [[User:Dhruv9900|Dhruv9900]]
# [[User:Divemaster19908|Divemaster19908]]
# [[User:Dixie949906|Dixie949906]]
# [[User:Dns9900|Dns9900]]
# [[User:Dragon9900|Dragon9900]]
# [[User:Dreadstar889900|Dreadstar889900]]
# [[User:Dsmith9905|Dsmith9905]]
# [[User:Duckman9901|Duckman9901]]
# [[User:Dude99900|Dude99900]]
# [[User:Dustin9909|Dustin9909]]
# [[User:Dylan09909|Dylan09909]]
# [[User:Dz9903|Dz9903]]
# [[User:Eagle9900|Eagle9900]]
# [[User:Edi949906|Edi949906]]
# [[User:Elliot9900|Elliot9900]]
# [[User:Emperor9901|Emperor9901]]
# [[User:Encyclopedia9900|Encyclopedia9900]]
# [[User:Engineers 9900|Engineers 9900]]
# [[User:Error9900|Error9900]]
# [[User:Erwes9900|Erwes9900]]
# [[User:Euskadi9901|Euskadi9901]]
# [[User:Evey9904|Evey9904]]
# [[User:Falcon9901|Falcon9901]]
# [[User:Farhan 9909|Farhan 9909]]
# [[User:Farooque9906|Farooque9906]]
# [[User:Fethi9903|Fethi9903]]
# [[User:Fish199902|Fish199902]]
# [[User:Fish9901|Fish9901]]
# [[User:Flash19901|Flash19901]]
# [[User:Forambnbetta12346879909|Forambnbetta12346879909]]
# [[User:Freaky9909|Freaky9909]]
# [[User:Freewilly9900|Freewilly9900]]
# [[User:Fujin19904|Fujin19904]]
# [[User:Fx 9909|Fx 9909]]
# [[User:G9909|G9909]]
# [[User:Gargos9904|Gargos9904]]
# [[User:Garyh9900|Garyh9900]]
# [[User:Gaurav489905|Gaurav489905]]
# [[User:Gems9900|Gems9900]]
# [[User:Gib9907|Gib9907]]
# [[User:Giga9908|Giga9908]]
# [[User:GoHuskies9904|GoHuskies9904]]
# [[User:Goodboy9900|Goodboy9900]]
# [[User:Goss9900|Goss9900]]
# [[User:Greener9900|Greener9900]]
# [[User:H0119907|H0119907]]
# [[User:HIStory9907|HIStory9907]]
# [[User:Hairydawg9904|Hairydawg9904]]
# [[User:Ham9901|Ham9901]]
# [[User:Hammertime9909|Hammertime9909]]
# [[User:Hank889900|Hank889900]]
# [[User:Harkirat9909|Harkirat9909]]
# [[User:Hawk9903|Hawk9903]]
# [[User:Heybaby9909|Heybaby9909]]
# [[User:Hgyn9909|Hgyn9909]]
# [[User:Hhjk9901|Hhjk9901]]
# [[User:Hickup20399900|Hickup20399900]]
# [[User:Highway9901|Highway9901]]
# [[User:Hitman9900|Hitman9900]]
# [[User:Hollywood9901|Hollywood9901]]
# [[User:Hre9902|Hre9902]]
# [[User:Hughjass9900|Hughjass9900]]
# [[User:Hypocrite9901|Hypocrite9901]]
# [[User:Ian9909|Ian9909]]
# [[User:Iceburg9900|Iceburg9900]]
# [[User:Iceman 9902|Iceman 9902]]
# [[User:Icon9900|Icon9900]]
# [[User:Iso9909|Iso9909]]
# [[User:JK19900|JK19900]]
# [[User:Jabe9900|Jabe9900]]
# [[User:Jack9901|Jack9901]]
# [[User:Jack99909|Jack99909]]
# [[User:Jaker29902|Jaker29902]]
# [[User:Jakub39908|Jakub39908]]
# [[User:Jamesc9900|Jamesc9900]]
# [[User:Jan9902|Jan9902]]
# [[User:Japedo9901|Japedo9901]]
# [[User:Jb109905|Jb109905]]
# [[User:Jc869904|Jc869904]]
# [[User:Jeff99909|Jeff99909]]
# [[User:Jeffsmith9900|Jeffsmith9900]]
# [[User:Jeic39900|Jeic39900]]
# [[User:Jentil9908|Jentil9908]]
# [[User:Jerm739901|Jerm739901]]
# [[User:Jg9909|Jg9909]]
# [[User:Jig009900|Jig009900]]
# [[User:Jimdog9902|Jimdog9902]]
# [[User:Jimmy john009900|Jimmy john009900]]
# [[User:Jinx9900|Jinx9900]]
# [[User:JjTt11669900|JjTt11669900]]
# [[User:Jkumar.99909|Jkumar.99909]]
# [[User:Jlane9909|Jlane9909]]
# [[User:Jmac9909|Jmac9909]]
# [[User:Jmoran9900|Jmoran9900]]
# [[User:Joe19904|Joe19904]]
# [[User:Joe19907|Joe19907]]
# [[User:Joe99901|Joe99901]]
# [[User:Joeblow99909|Joeblow99909]]
# [[User:Joel9901|Joel9901]]
# [[User:John Sharpe 9900|John Sharpe 9900]]
# [[User:John cena9907|John cena9907]]
# [[User:John9902|John9902]]
# [[User:Johnnyb79904|Johnnyb79904]]
# [[User:Jojogill9909|Jojogill9909]]
# [[User:Jon9901|Jon9901]]
# [[User:Jonathon9909|Jonathon9909]]
# [[User:JordanT199907|JordanT199907]]
# [[User:Josev9908|Josev9908]]
# [[User:Joy019900|Joy019900]]
# [[User:Jp9900|Jp9900]]
# [[User:Jpaul19904|Jpaul19904]]
# [[User:Jsmith9900|Jsmith9900]]
# [[User:Juan9909|Juan9909]]
# [[User:Juggalo 18749908|Juggalo 18749908]]
# [[User:Jva9903|Jva9903]]
# [[User:KING9906|KING9906]]
# [[User:Kailah9903|Kailah9903]]
# [[User:Kain9903|Kain9903]]
# [[User:Kalle9901|Kalle9901]]
# [[User:Kallie9903|Kallie9903]]
# [[User:Kant9901|Kant9901]]
# [[User:KaraokeQueen9901|KaraokeQueen9901]]
# [[User:KaraokeSinger99900|KaraokeSinger99900]]
# [[User:Kavit9900|Kavit9900]]
# [[User:Kein9904|Kein9904]]
# [[User:Kel9903|Kel9903]]
# [[User:Kermit luver9907|Kermit luver9907]]
# [[User:Kevin9900|Kevin9900]]
# [[User:Kevin9909|Kevin9909]]
# [[User:Kevinp9900|Kevinp9900]]
# [[User:Kiki9900|Kiki9900]]
# [[User:Kingpin9902|Kingpin9902]]
# [[User:Kiran9900|Kiran9900]]
# [[User:Kittykat9909|Kittykat9909]]
# [[User:Kjz929901|Kjz929901]]
# [[User:Knowledge 9900|Knowledge 9900]]
# [[User:Koli9909|Koli9909]]
# [[User:Koopaking9900|Koopaking9900]]
# [[User:Krish9905|Krish9905]]
# [[User:Krish9907|Krish9907]]
# [[User:Ks149900|Ks149900]]
# [[User:Kswanson9908|Kswanson9908]]
# [[User:LAboy9900|LAboy9900]]
# [[User:Lampshade9909|Lampshade9909]]
# [[User:Landak9903|Landak9903]]
# [[User:Laura9909|Laura9909]]
# [[User:Layonel9900|Layonel9900]]
# [[User:Leo99901|Leo99901]]
# [[User:Levi9909|Levi9909]]
# [[User:Lew9901|Lew9901]]
# [[User:Lewis19904|Lewis19904]]
# [[User:Lhn9904|Lhn9904]]
# [[User:Lightning9905|Lightning9905]]
# [[User:Lijujs9900|Lijujs9900]]
# [[User:Lilmo9900|Lilmo9900]]
# [[User:Linsey99902|Linsey99902]]
# [[User:Lion999909|Lion999909]]
# [[User:Liverpool9903|Liverpool9903]]
# [[User:Lizette9908|Lizette9908]]
# [[User:Ljw19901|Ljw19901]]
# [[User:Lolo9909|Lolo9909]]
# [[User:Lrr9900|Lrr9900]]
# [[User:Luis mike9904|Luis mike9904]]
# [[User:Lukas19902|Lukas19902]]
# [[User:M 68709904|M 68709904]]
# [[User:Makaveli9906|Makaveli9906]]
# [[User:Mally9909|Mally9909]]
# [[User:Mammamia9905|Mammamia9905]]
# [[User:Manoj9909|Manoj9909]]
# [[User:Manutd689908|Manutd689908]]
# [[User:Marcus9909|Marcus9909]]
# [[User:Mariad199907|Mariad199907]]
# [[User:Mariajose9909|Mariajose9909]]
# [[User:Mark19901|Mark19901]]
# [[User:Mark9900|Mark9900]]
# [[User:Marsattacks9909|Marsattacks9909]]
# [[User:Martini9900|Martini9900]]
# [[User:Martydawg19904|Martydawg19904]]
# [[User:Marvin9909|Marvin9909]]
# [[User:MasterNinja9900|MasterNinja9900]]
# [[User:Matt9900|Matt9900]]
# [[User:Matt9903|Matt9903]]
# [[User:Matt9904|Matt9904]]
# [[User:Matt99901|Matt99901]]
# [[User:Maverick9901|Maverick9901]]
# [[User:Mbarb49903|Mbarb49903]]
# [[User:Mc0129900|Mc0129900]]
# [[User:Mc389908|Mc389908]]
# [[User:Me9906|Me9906]]
# [[User:Meliss9900|Meliss9900]]
# [[User:Mengz9900|Mengz9900]]
# [[User:Merlin9909|Merlin9909]]
# [[User:Mervat9909|Mervat9909]]
# [[User:Miam9906|Miam9906]]
# [[User:Mickey9900|Mickey9900]]
# [[User:Mike9909|Mike9909]]
# [[User:Mikey689908|Mikey689908]]
# [[User:Mikkl9909|Mikkl9909]]
# [[User:MilkWoman889900|MilkWoman889900]]
# [[User:Mina9900|Mina9900]]
# [[User:Minerva29909|Minerva29909]]
# [[User:Mjeter49902|Mjeter49902]]
# [[User:Mkr 9902|Mkr 9902]]
# [[User:Mleder9901|Mleder9901]]
# [[User:Mm299905|Mm299905]]
# [[User:Mohammed689908|Mohammed689908]]
# [[User:Mohm9900|Mohm9900]]
# [[User:Momma9900|Momma9900]]
# [[User:MoonLightShadow9904|MoonLightShadow9904]]
# [[User:Morpheus9907|Morpheus9907]]
# [[User:Mothman9901|Mothman9901]]
# [[User:Moviestar9908|Moviestar9908]]
# [[User:Mpk9908|Mpk9908]]
# [[User:Mrbravo9908|Mrbravo9908]]
# [[User:Mrs9907|Mrs9907]]
# [[User:Msn 9913739903|Msn 9913739903]]
# [[User:Muser9903|Muser9903]]
# [[User:Musikk9900|Musikk9900]]
# [[User:Mustanggt9902|Mustanggt9902]]
# [[User:Mvrk9900|Mvrk9900]]
# [[User:Nachos9900|Nachos9900]]
# [[User:Nanor9909|Nanor9909]]
# [[User:Naruto9901|Naruto9901]]
# [[User:Nate909909909|Nate909909909]]
# [[User:Ndfan9906|Ndfan9906]]
# [[User:Nick9902|Nick9902]]
# [[User:Nico9900|Nico9900]]
# [[User:Nishigandha19909|Nishigandha19909]]
# [[User:Nouha19901|Nouha19901]]
# [[User:Numbnut909909|Numbnut909909]]
# [[User:Obe19900|Obe19900]]
# [[User:Oioioipolloi9900|Oioioipolloi9900]]
# [[User:Ola9900|Ola9900]]
# [[User:Ollie9900|Ollie9900]]
# [[User:Onnie9902|Onnie9902]]
# [[User:OoP009909|OoP009909]]
# [[User:Orca1 9904|Orca1 9904]]
# [[User:P0769902|P0769902]]
# [[User:PC9901|PC9901]]
# [[User:PENGI9909|PENGI9909]]
# [[User:Pa4329908|Pa4329908]]
# [[User:Paganpunk9909|Paganpunk9909]]
# [[User:Pal9900|Pal9900]]
# [[User:Pankaj99901|Pankaj99901]]
# [[User:Paula9904|Paula9904]]
# [[User:Pavan9900|Pavan9900]]
# [[User:Pcross9909|Pcross9909]]
# [[User:Peacenk9908|Peacenk9908]]
# [[User:Petergriffin9901|Petergriffin9901]]
# [[User:Pink9907|Pink9907]]
# [[User:Pinklover539909|Pinklover539909]]
# [[User:Piyush 9900|Piyush 9900]]
# [[User:Pokemon9909|Pokemon9909]]
# [[User:Polo9900|Polo9900]]
# [[User:Poppop9902|Poppop9902]]
# [[User:Pradeep19900|Pradeep19900]]
# [[User:Pratik9903|Pratik9903]]
# [[User:Prism9900|Prism9900]]
# [[User:Priya9909|Priya9909]]
# [[User:Pudgy49902|Pudgy49902]]
# [[User:Puk9901|Puk9901]]
# [[User:Puma9901|Puma9901]]
# [[User:Pup9900|Pup9900]]
# [[User:Purple9908|Purple9908]]
# [[User:Putu 9902|Putu 9902]]
# [[User:Qa9903|Qa9903]]
# [[User:RDeer9909|RDeer9909]]
# [[User:RSB689908|RSB689908]]
# [[User:Rach9904|Rach9904]]
# [[User:Rachel9909|Rachel9909]]
# [[User:Rafael9908|Rafael9908]]
# [[User:Rain79903|Rain79903]]
# [[User:Razey69907|Razey69907]]
# [[User:Raziel 9909|Raziel 9909]]
# [[User:Rebecca9906|Rebecca9906]]
# [[User:Rf9909|Rf9909]]
# [[User:Riaz9906|Riaz9906]]
# [[User:Richiesun19900|Richiesun19900]]
# [[User:Riley9908|Riley9908]]
# [[User:Riptide9902|Riptide9902]]
# [[User:Rj19909|Rj19909]]
# [[User:Rl9905|Rl9905]]
# [[User:Rlb9901|Rlb9901]]
# [[User:Rob19902|Rob19902]]
# [[User:Robert9901|Robert9901]]
# [[User:Robotix9900|Robotix9900]]
# [[User:Rockstar9900|Rockstar9900]]
# [[User:Rohan9921669900|Rohan9921669900]]
# [[User:Ronniek9900|Ronniek9900]]
# [[User:Root9900|Root9900]]
# [[User:Roy9901|Roy9901]]
# [[User:Rr9904|Rr9904]]
# [[User:Rs9907|Rs9907]]
# [[User:Rtuwx9904|Rtuwx9904]]
# [[User:Rymer99901|Rymer99901]]
# [[User:SLambert9901|SLambert9901]]
# [[User:STT9900|STT9900]]
# [[User:Sacchu.19900|Sacchu.19900]]
# [[User:Salman 9901|Salman 9901]]
# [[User:Sammie11999900|Sammie11999900]]
# [[User:Sappie689902|Sappie689902]]
# [[User:Sas9900|Sas9900]]
# [[User:Scott19904|Scott19904]]
# [[User:Shade9901|Shade9901]]
# [[User:Shadow009909|Shadow009909]]
# [[User:Shadow9902|Shadow9902]]
# [[User:Shakil779900|Shakil779900]]
# [[User:Shannon9907|Shannon9907]]
# [[User:Shary249900|Shary249900]]
# [[User:Shashi9908|Shashi9908]]
# [[User:Simpler9903|Simpler9903]]
# [[User:Sissy9906|Sissy9906]]
# [[User:Smile889900|Smile889900]]
# [[User:Smith9900|Smith9900]]
# [[User:Snobal99901|Snobal99901]]
# [[User:Snugz 9908|Snugz 9908]]
# [[User:Soccerspaz9900|Soccerspaz9900]]
# [[User:Softballgurl9900|Softballgurl9900]]
# [[User:Soup9900|Soup9900]]
# [[User:Soxxdude9901|Soxxdude9901]]
# [[User:Spade9900|Spade9900]]
# [[User:Spike9908|Spike9908]]
# [[User:Spw19902|Spw19902]]
# [[User:Ssie9903|Ssie9903]]
# [[User:St9900|St9900]]
# [[User:Steviec89901|Steviec89901]]
# [[User:Suemc9900|Suemc9900]]
# [[User:Sunshinegirl9905|Sunshinegirl9905]]
# [[User:Superman9909|Superman9909]]
# [[User:Supra9909|Supra9909]]
# [[User:Sweety9904|Sweety9904]]
# [[User:Sylvia9900|Sylvia9900]]
# [[User:TMS9900|TMS9900]]
# [[User:Tabla9903|Tabla9903]]
# [[User:Tanroy9900|Tanroy9900]]
# [[User:Tc169903|Tc169903]]
# [[User:Teja9900|Teja9900]]
# [[User:Terps9909|Terps9909]]
# [[User:Test6789900|Test6789900]]
# [[User:Thechanger9900|Thechanger9900]]
# [[User:Thom9900|Thom9900]]
# [[User:Tieyscha9900|Tieyscha9900]]
# [[User:Tmurph9903|Tmurph9903]]
# [[User:Tnguyen9901|Tnguyen9901]]
# [[User:Todd29901|Todd29901]]
# [[User:Tom clancy 9906|Tom clancy 9906]]
# [[User:Tom9909|Tom9909]]
# [[User:Tommy19901|Tommy19901]]
# [[User:Tooltime9901|Tooltime9901]]
# [[User:Toy9900|Toy9900]]
# [[User:Tracyas9900|Tracyas9900]]
# [[User:Trane9900|Trane9900]]
# [[User:Treilly9906|Treilly9906]]
# [[User:Trouble9900|Trouble9900]]
# [[User:Tum tum9900|Tum tum9900]]
# [[User:TuzelMA9903|TuzelMA9903]]
# [[User:Twinmom9906|Twinmom9906]]
# [[User:Tyberius9909|Tyberius9909]]
# [[User:Umax9900|Umax9900]]
# [[User:Unknown 9907|Unknown 9907]]
# [[User:Unknownobject99909|Unknownobject99909]]
# [[User:Urty9900|Urty9900]]
# [[User:User119900|User119900]]
# [[User:V karthick9900|V karthick9900]]
# [[User:V9900|V9900]]
# [[User:Vampi9909|Vampi9909]]
# [[User:Vanum9900|Vanum9900]]
# [[User:Venum9900|Venum9900]]
# [[User:Vikash9903|Vikash9903]]
# [[User:Vonte9900|Vonte9900]]
# [[User:Vwillis9904|Vwillis9904]]
# [[User:WJP19901|WJP19901]]
# [[User:Wazi9909|Wazi9909]]
# [[User:Wert99909|Wert99909]]
# [[User:Wikiboi29902|Wikiboi29902]]
# [[User:Wikipedia9909|Wikipedia9909]]
# [[User:Winch19904|Winch19904]]
# [[User:Windy9901|Windy9901]]
# [[User:Wwechamp9900|Wwechamp9900]]
# [[User:Wwedraft9900|Wwedraft9900]]
# [[User:Xenon109904|Xenon109904]]
# [[User:Xiang9903|Xiang9903]]
# [[User:Xue9906|Xue9906]]
# [[User:Yasir9909|Yasir9909]]
# [[User:Yating9901|Yating9901]]
# [[User:Yes9900|Yes9900]]
# [[User:Yjk9900|Yjk9900]]
# [[User:Zak889900|Zak889900]]
# [[User:Zch9900|Zch9900]]
# [[User:Zeepa09909|Zeepa09909]]
# [[User:Ziggy9901|Ziggy9901]]
# [[User:Zlatko9900|Zlatko9900]]
# [[User:Zx9906|Zx9906]]
}}
:Err, have fun! :-)  --[[User:MZMcBride|MZMcBride]] ([[User talk:MZMcBride|talk]]) 19:59, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

An embarrassment  of riches, but not as bad as you might think. Relatively few are actually Name9902 and Name9903. It'll take a few hours, but I'll manage it some afternoon when I'm bored. Or maybe just submit a massive checkuser request to keep those guys on their toes.&mdash;[[User:Kww|Kww]]([[User talk:Kww|talk]]) 22:05, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

== History tab at the top ==

{{hat}}
Precedent:  Articles at the top have tabs with labels such as "discussion" and "history".  The discussion tab leads to the talk page.  The use of the word "discussion" is good because it is easy to understand and not jargon.  Once someone clicks it, it shows the talk page (not named "discussion").

Suggestion: There is a "history" tab.  Like the above, a history page is fine.  However, the tab should not say "history" because this is jargon.  Instead, it should say "authors". 

Use of "authors" would give credit to editors, much as we give editors credit in the form of barnstars.  It's just a nice thing to do to encourage writing, give recognition, and reduce jargon. [[User:User F203|User F203]] ([[User talk:User F203|talk]]) 18:23, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

:But that would be incorrect, implying that the page is a list of editors who have contributed to the current page text.  But the history page also includes vandals, edits that were reverted, edits that have been totally overwritten, random drivebys by bots, protecting admins who have made no actual contribution to the content, etc etc.  All authors are listed on the history page, but not everyone on the history page is an author.  [[User:Happy-melon|<b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b>]] 18:37, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
::Every editor listed was an author is some form, even if what they wrote was reverted.  But this is the wrong forum per instructions at the top.  It also doesn't have to say "authors".  It could say "editors". Even admins who protect it get some credit because they shaped the article by protecting it.  Look at this suggestion as positive! [[User:User F203|User F203]] ([[User talk:User F203|talk]]) 19:28, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
:::It's been called history for the longest time, I doubt we will change it now. Too ingrained in the ''gestalt''. –[[user:xeno|<b style="font-family:verdana; color:black;">xeno</b>]] [[user talk:xeno|<sup style="color:black; font-family:verdana;">talk</sup>]] 19:31, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
I remember seeing another tab change about a year ago so change is possible.  This is a positive change!  Anyway, according to the instructions, this is the wrong forum so please end the discussion here.  [[User:User F203|User F203]] ([[User talk:User F203|talk]]) 19:37, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
{{hab}}

== [[Special:BlockList]] : hide proxy blocks ==

Would it be possible to hide blocks by ProccseeBot from the blocklist? –[[user:xeno|<b style="font-family:verdana; color:black;">xeno</b>]] [[user talk:xeno|<sup style="color:black; font-family:verdana;">talk</sup>]] 18:36, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
:Some JavaScript could do it pretty easily (a modified version of [[User:MZMcBride/hideentries.js]], I imagine). To do it in MediaWiki core would be a bit more tricky. There's no bot flag in the logging table. You'd have to create an option to exclude a specific user using a URL parameter or something. Not really clean. --[[User:MZMcBride|MZMcBride]] ([[User talk:MZMcBride|talk]]) 19:42, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
::Hmmm... It's not too important to be honest, I just noticed that ProcseeBot can sometimes monopolize the log. =) –[[user:xeno|<b style="font-family:verdana; color:black;">xeno</b>]] [[user talk:xeno|<sup style="color:black; font-family:verdana;">talk</sup>]] 19:45, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
:::We've all been there. ;-)  --[[User:MZMcBride|MZMcBride]] ([[User talk:MZMcBride|talk]]) 20:01, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

== How long does it take the search engine to catch up with changes to articles? ==

^^^^ –[[user:xeno|<b style="font-family:verdana; color:black;">xeno</b>]] [[user talk:xeno|<sup style="color:black; font-family:verdana;">talk</sup>]] 19:25, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
:According to [[User:Rainman|rainman]] when I just asked him on IRC, he said a day. --[[User:MZMcBride|MZMcBride]] ([[User talk:MZMcBride|talk]]) 19:44, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
::thanks =) –[[user:xeno|<b style="font-family:verdana; color:black;">xeno</b>]] [[user talk:xeno|<sup style="color:black; font-family:verdana;">talk</sup>]] 19:45, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
== auto signatures? ==

maybe I'm missing something obvious here, but wouldn't it be possible to have the software automatically add your signature?  I mean literally - when you hit the 'Save Page' button, the software compares the old version to the new, checks to see if the last characters of the newly added bit (barring whitespace) are <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> and if not, adds them.  you'd have to exclude changes marked as minor, and changes that occur in the middle of a paragraph, but with a little regexp it's certainly doable.  

of course, I don't know what kind of impact that would have on server load, or how that would compare to the current load induced by sigbots...  --[[User_talk:Ludwigs2|<span style="color:darkblue;font-weight:bold">Ludwigs</span><span style="color:green;font-weight:bold">2</span>]] 16:27, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
:Technically it would be trivial.  Socially, it would be annoying as hell, when you get signatures popping up in places you don't want them.  How can the software tell between an edit that's unsigned because you forgot, and an edit that's unsigned because you ''don't want it'' to be signed?? [[User:Happy-melon|<b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b>]] 17:19, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

::well, I was just assuming that the only times you ''don't'' want an edit to be signed are easy to identify programatically (minor edits, fixes, section headers, etc.).  As a rubric, anytime you add one or more full paragraphs to the body of a section (in the sense of text that begins on a fresh line and ends on a fresh line, and excludes headers) you want a signature; anytime you modify an extant paragraph (or add something that's only a section header) you don't.  maybe there's odd cases (like adding a list item to someone else's example list) that need to be accounted for, but I bet we could account for 99% of talk and administrative edits using that rule.  plus, we could always add a checkbox to suppress signatures for abnormal cases.  I mean, the sigbots have rules for when they do and don't add signatures, and they seem to work ok.  this just does the same thing with the advantage of immediacy (the software has access to both the current and and revised versions in a way that sigbots coming in after the fact don't).  --[[User_talk:Ludwigs2|<span style="color:darkblue;font-weight:bold">Ludwigs</span><span style="color:green;font-weight:bold">2</span>]] 18:00, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
:::This seems like an awful lot of effort for something that, ultimately, isn't the end of the world; the occasional unsigned comment is caught pretty quickly, and there are plenty of times where signing ''isn't'' needed. Typing "~" four times just isn't that hard. [[User:EVula|EVula]] <span style="color: #999;">// [[User talk:EVula|talk]] // [[User:EVula/admin|<span style="color: #366;">&#9775;</span>]] //</span> 03:49, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

::::I'm a fan of automating what can be automated.  four characters may not seem like a lot, but multiply it by a couple hundred thousand edits per day and it adds up to a lot of collective wasted time.  but yeah, it's not a huge deal.  --[[User_talk:Ludwigs2|<span style="color:darkblue;font-weight:bold">Ludwigs</span><span style="color:green;font-weight:bold">2</span>]] 04:18, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
:::::Well, there's a rumor that we might shift the discussion pages to something more akin to [[mw:Extension:LiquidThreads|LiquidThreads]], which would negate the entire need for an automated signing system. But personally, I think automating it would cause far, far more trouble than its worth (and would take more collective time to fix false-positives than collective time spent typing four tildes). [[User:EVula|EVula]] <span style="color: #999;">// [[User talk:EVula|talk]] // [[User:EVula/admin|<span style="color: #366;">&#9775;</span>]] //</span> 05:47, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
::::::yeah, that's a distinct possibility.  good enough for me, unless someone else thinks it's a good idea and wants to chime in about it.  {{=)}} --[[User_talk:Ludwigs2|<span style="color:darkblue;font-weight:bold">Ludwigs</span><span style="color:green;font-weight:bold">2</span>]] 06:08, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

I've been assigned LiquidThreads as my next task, so you can probably expect it over the next few months, probably towards the end of the year. &mdash; [[User:Werdna|<span style="font-weight: bold; color: #404080">Werdna</span>]]&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;[[User talk:Werdna|<span style="color: #8080b0">talk</span>]] 15:46, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
:<pre-emptive champagne>Woohoo!!!</champagne>... {{mono|:D}} [[User:Happy-melon|<b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b>]] 11:06, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

== Autoconfirmation ==

{{resolved}}
Just now {{user|Wikipedian2}} asked why Twinkle tells him that his account were "too new". His account however is far older and has far more edits than are normally required. His account is also far past the [http://noc.wikimedia.org/conf/highlight.php?file=CommonSettings.php the $wgTorAutoConfirmAge and $wgTorAutoConfirmCount] setting from TorBlock. There also is no entry for the user in the [{{fullurl:Special:AbuseLog|title=Special%3AAbuseLog&wpSearchUser=Wikipedian2&wpSearchFilter=&wpSearchTitle=}} Special:AbuseLog], so he wasn't deautoconfirmed through that (would that be a permanent deautoconfirmation, BTW?).<br>So I'm at a loss. Is there another way to lose autoconfirmation status that I'm missing? The user was apparently recently caught in an autoblock, and was {{diff2|286628984|ip-block exempted}}. Can that have anything to do with it?<br>[[User talk:Amalthea|<span style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant:small-caps;color:#823824;font-weight:normal">Amalthea</span>]] 11:46, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
:<s>Any abuse filter triggers?</s> nope.  –[[user:xeno|<span style="font-family:verdana;color:black;">'''xeno'''</span>]] [[user talk:xeno|<span style="color:black; font-family:verdana;"><sup>talk</sup></span>]] 20:27, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

On my [[Special:Preferences|preferences]] - it says I am autoconfirmed - but apparently not?  [[User:Wikipedian2|Wikipedian2]] ([[User talk:Wikipedian2|talk]]) 15:48, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

That makes it a twinkle bug, not a MediaWiki bug. &mdash; [[User:Werdna|<span style="font-weight: bold; color: #404080">Werdna</span>]]&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;[[User talk:Werdna|<span style="color: #8080b0">talk</span>]] 16:37, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Precisely why I went to twinkle bugs, where my case was closed and I didn't come here immedietly. [[User:Wikipedian2|Wikipedian2]] ([[User talk:Wikipedian2|talk]]) 17:15, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

: Hmm. I'd be very surprised if there was a bug in that trivial logic, but I'll try to work it from there. Sorry for the noise. [[User talk:Amalthea|<span style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant:small-caps;color:#823824;font-weight:normal">Amalthea</span>]] 10:26, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

== Interface redesign mock-ups ==

[[User:Trevor Parscal|Trevor Parscal]] has been creating mock-ups of a redesigned, more efficient interface. Some of the preliminary sketches are viewable '''[http://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/Designs here]'''. Comments, suggestions, etc. welcome here or on the talk page there. Cheers. --[[User:MZMcBride|MZMcBride]] ([[User talk:MZMcBride|talk]]) 19:39, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
:I'm a fan of those mock-ups. I personally think monobook is overused and outdated, and I think it would do good to give it a little face-lift that will improve [http://usability.wikipedia.org usability] as well as aesthetics. [[User:Cmelbye|<span style="font-family:Zapfino, sans-serif; color:DarkBlue">cmelbye</span>]] (<sup>[[User talk:Cmelbye|t]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Cmelbye|c]]</sub>) 04:53, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
:It looks like an improvement for newer users: it's simple. I like the aesthetic, but I'd probably customize it for myself: first, I hate drop-down menus (which, by the way, often fail on touch-only devices like the iPod Touch or iPhone, which don't have "hover" options), and second, I'm used to the general scheme of our current interface. It might be improved by a little tweaking using things we already have: for example, there should probably be a way to tell which tabs are active, like the orange border/bolding currently used through the "active" CSS class. Aside from that, my concern would be mainly in the implementation side of things: what technical features would it use to achieve the design features? Would these technical features degrade gracefully? Would they allow the sort of customization I'd desire? Would old customizations (user scripts) be broken? <nowiki>{</nowiki>{[[User:Nihiltres|<span style="color:#233D7A;">Nihiltres</span>]]<nowiki>|</nowiki><span class="plainlinks">[[User talk:Nihiltres|talk]]<nowiki>|</nowiki>[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?user=Nihiltres log]</span>}<nowiki>}</nowiki> 06:45, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
::I don't think there is any getting around using dropdown menu's in the end. We just have too many options per page. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 11:14, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
:::The way to get around using drop-down menus is not to use them. Pretend they don't exist (which may be the case for some users). The only place they are used now in the edit page is for inserting characters. The mockups are nice, but they need to work for the vast majority of users if they're going to be the default. [[User:Delicious carbuncle|Delicious carbuncle]] ([[User talk:Delicious carbuncle|talk]]) 16:43, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
::: My point is rather that we need to make sure that those menus are effective. If a redesign means, for example, that everyone browsing on an iPhone or tablet (which can't hover on elements) can't access the menus, we have a problem; if a redesign means that a pile of user scripts break really nastily, we have a problem; if a redesign prevents users from customizing the interface at all … you see what I mean? My concern is that, although the redesign might help quite a number of viewers, we don't want to break things for the rest of them, myself included. I'd love to see a live mock-up. <nowiki>{</nowiki>{[[User:Nihiltres|<span style="color:#233D7A;">Nihiltres</span>]]<nowiki>|</nowiki><span class="plainlinks">[[User talk:Nihiltres|talk]]<nowiki>|</nowiki>[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?user=Nihiltres log]</span>}<nowiki>}</nowiki> 20:16, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
== Change tagging activated ==

Hi all,

After working out some minor performance issues, we've activated change tagging on Wikimedia. You can see the available tags, and filter by them at [[Special:Tags]]. Individual tags can be styled using the <tt>mw-tag-$tag</tt> class applied on changes lists (tag names are sanitised for this purpose).

Let me know if there are any problems! &mdash; [[User:Werdna|<span style="font-weight: bold; color: #404080">Werdna</span>]]&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;[[User talk:Werdna|<span style="color: #8080b0">talk</span>]] 13:33, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
:Looks interesting but... how do you tag pages? Is there documentation for the extension/addition? –[[User:Drilnoth|Drilnoth]] ([[User talk:Drilnoth|T]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Drilnoth|C]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[Special:Log/Drilnoth|L]]) 14:43, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

: Tagging is done by the software. Presently, this is done mostly by the Abuse Filter &ndash; the actions taken by a filter can include applying a tag to the edit in question. &mdash; [[User:Werdna|<span style="font-weight: bold; color: #404080">Werdna</span>]]&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;[[User talk:Werdna|<span style="color: #8080b0">talk</span>]] 15:40, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
::Okay; thanks. Sounds like another great feature! –[[User:Drilnoth|Drilnoth]] ([[User talk:Drilnoth|T]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Drilnoth|C]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[Special:Log/Drilnoth|L]]) 15:49, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Great feature indeed, though I'm a tad worried for the younger editors. The interface is getting more cluttered by the day.... —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 10:06, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
::::Any chance of wrapping tags in an identifiable class? I know that the whole li entry is given a class that identifies the tag (what happens if more than one tag is applied, BTW? Multiple classes?), but being able to style the "(references removed)" phrase itself would be useful. The same class should apply to all tags, as well, otherwise you have an open-ended set of classes to look for. Shall I open a bug? [[User:Happy-melon|<b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b>]] 11:03, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::Yes, open a bug (if someone hasn't already beaten you to it). --[[User:MZMcBride|MZMcBride]] ([[User talk:MZMcBride|talk]]) 22:22, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
::::::{{phab|20661}} [[User:Happy-melon|<b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b>]] 17:19, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

== References removed automatically appended to edit summaries ==

See the [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Duran_Duran&action=history editing history of Duran Duran.] Just curious, since when did MediaWiki do this? [[User:Someguy1221|Someguy1221]] ([[User talk:Someguy1221|talk]]) 04:50, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
:Since [[Special:Tags]] were enabled (see a few sections up). --[[User:MZMcBride|MZMcBride]] ([[User talk:MZMcBride|talk]]) 07:09, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
::::See [[Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Change tagging activated]]. [[Special:Contributions/199.125.109.77|199.125.109.77]] ([[User talk:199.125.109.77|talk]]) 04:14, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
::Can someone point to more information on these tags, how they are identified, and what they mean? Thanks. [[User:Delicious carbuncle|Delicious carbuncle]] ([[User talk:Delicious carbuncle|talk]]) 16:45, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
:::They're coming from [[WP:Abuse filter|AbuseFilter]]. For example, "references removed" comes from [[Special:AbuseFilter/61|filter 61]]. Don't know if there's an easy way to see which tags come from which filter, though.... --[[User:MZMcBride|MZMcBride]] ([[User talk:MZMcBride|talk]]) 22:20, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
::::Ah! Thanks. I'll repost my comment from [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Throwaway_entry_creator_accounts._Or_something. WP:AN] - ''An obvious measure to reduce confusion would be to link the "tag" back to the filter which appends it. Was this change announced anywhere (other than the extremely vague note at WP:VPT)? It doesn't seem to be covered on [[WP:AF]], unless I missed it. Expect more confusion.'' [[User:Delicious carbuncle|Delicious carbuncle]] ([[User talk:Delicious carbuncle|talk]]) 18:38, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::Agreed. I keep a pretty close eye on software changes and I was still "WTF?" when I saw it the first time. It needs a link or something. Or a tooltip or a CSS mark of some sort. --[[User:MZMcBride|MZMcBride]] ([[User talk:MZMcBride|talk]]) 18:40, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
::::::I've taken it to [[Wikipedia talk:Abuse filter#Filter ID for us noobs?]] after being [[WP:ANI#Throwaway entry creator accounts. Or something.|caught unawares]]; seems like a good place to have that discussion. [[User:9Nak|9Nak]] ([[User talk:9Nak|talk]]) 19:11, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
(unindent) [[bugzilla:18669]]. --[[User:MZMcBride|MZMcBride]] ([[User talk:MZMcBride|talk]]) 02:13, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
== catchpa on archive ==

Why do I have to enter the catcha 5 times in order to archive a talk page??? [[Special:Contributions/76.66.202.139|76.66.202.139]] ([[User talk:76.66.202.139|talk]]) 07:32, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
:Might be helpful if we knew which page you were looking at. Sorry to hear about your troubles; while I do strongly support the ability of anons to edit, I also generally think it's in the best interest of any regular contributor to [[WP:WHY|register an account]] to avoid various issues, including this sort of thing. &ndash; <span style="font-family: Garamond">[[User:Luna Santin|<span style="color:#1E90FF;">'''Luna Santin'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Luna Santin|talk]])</span> 21:39, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
:This might be a stupid question but ... did you get the captcha correct the first 4 times? <span style="font-family:Broadway;">[[User:Mr.Z-man|Mr.]][[User talk:Mr.Z-man|'''''Z-'''man'']]</span> 23:43, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

::I think the removal of large amount of text from a page triggers it for ip users. You can create an account to avoid this. [[User talk:Chillum|<span style="color:Green;">'''Chillum'''</span>]] 23:46, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
:Sounds like you hit the external link CAPTCHA. (That's still activated, right?) --[[User:MZMcBride|MZMcBride]] ([[User talk:MZMcBride|talk]]) 22:37, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
::Yeah it is, I hit it almost every time I'm writing up a manga chapter list from home (because of the sources I add). <span style="white-space: nowrap;">「[[User:Dinoguy1000|ダイノ]][[User talk:Dinoguy1000|<span style="color: #080; font-weight: normal;">ガイ</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Dinoguy1000|<span style="color: #F90;">千</span>]]？！」<sup>(Dinoguy1000)</sup></span> 22:01, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

== question about parserfunctions, nesting, and processor loads ==

I made a template - {{tl|do list}} - to standardize text lists and keep line breaks from occurring in the middle of phrases, but another editor ([[User:Edokter]]) suggested it might be too heavy on the preprocessor.  The issue boils down to whether it's more efficient to use nested conditionals (so that unused IFs never get evaluated at all) or to use sequential conditionals (in which all the IFs have to be evaluated, but nothing gets stacked in memory).  eg, which of the following is better?

{| style="margin-left:2em"
|<pre>{{#if:{{{1|}}}
    |{{{1}}} {{#if:{{{2|}}}
        |{{{2}}} {{#if:{{{3|}}}
            |{{{3}}}... ... ... 
        }}
    }}
}}</pre>
|<pre>{{#if:{{{1|}}}|{{{1}}} }}
{{#if:{{{2|}}}|{{{2}}} }}
{{#if:{{{3|}}}|{{{3}}} }} 
... ... ...</pre>
|}

or (alternately) should I just scrap this template as being too expensive either way you look at it?  --[[User_talk:Ludwigs2|<span style="color:darkblue;font-weight:bold">Ludwigs</span><span style="color:green;font-weight:bold">2</span>]] 15:02, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

:Neither option would be ''dangerously'' heavy on the preprocessor in the quantities used in that template, IMO. Nested conditionals get very difficult to read in line-wrapping editors, and it becomes easier to get brace counts wrong.  In principle, yes, nested conditionals are fractionally more efficient (the preprocessor isn't building a stack, it's recursively expanding objects inline, so the memory usage is probably comparable), but [[WP:PERFORMANCE|not overwhelmingly so]]. [[User:Happy-melon|<b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b>]] 17:07, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

::I raised the question because the template was advertised on {{tl|Navbox}}, so it would see it's primary use there. With Navbox so widely used, each page edit would IMV have a potential negative impact. <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — [[User:Edokter|<span style="color: #008;"><b><i>E</i>dokter</b></span>]] • [[User_talk:Edokter|<span style="color: #080;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 17:18, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

== Problem with the infobox ==

Hi, I'm contributing to the article, [[Saidabad]]. There is a problem with the infobox formatting. I'm not able to fix it. Any help is much appreciated. Randhir 18:48, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
:The Zone and Ward variables take the value entered for Metro and wrap it like "List of <metro> corporation wards" for the template. Thus you can't wikilink the metro entry as it will break the template. [[User:Nanonic|Nanonic]] ([[User talk:Nanonic|talk]]) 19:06, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

If you mean the white box that tells you what tools are what, yeah. I'm having that problem too. Please; anyone; its not a minor issue!--[[User:Pr1nce0fDarkn3ss|Pr1nce0fDarkn3ss]] ([[User talk:Pr1nce0fDarkn3ss|talk]]) 00:21, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

:as Nanonic said, you can't use links for that parameter - it needs to be plain text because it's used to create a different wikilink below.  I've removed the link for the time being.  if for some reason 'Hyderabad' isn't sufficient, and the 'Andhra Pradesh' part needs to be specified, the template's going to have to be modified.  --[[User_talk:Ludwigs2|<span style="color:darkblue;font-weight:bold">Ludwigs</span><span style="color:green;font-weight:bold">2</span>]] 04:51, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

== Valid change tags ==

If you go to "[[Special:SpecialPages]]", there is a cryptic link to "Valid change tags", which can also be reached from the Special:Contributions page. One of the more unusual "valid change tags" is "nonsense movies". Not "nonesense books", "nonsense article", "nonsense Pokemon", but only "nonsense movies". Should that be instead, "nonsense article", or "nonsense moves"? Excuse me, it is "Nonsense movies?". What's up? Or should I say, "What's up, Doc?" [[Special:Contributions/199.125.109.77|199.125.109.77]] ([[User talk:199.125.109.77|talk]]) 23:23, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
:This was a bit of a mistake, and I've gone ahead and changed a bunch of the visible ones (i.e., those with hits) for now, and have asked for the help of others ([[Wikipedia_talk:Abuse_filter#Help_requested_for_populating_AbuseFilter_tag_wording.2Fdescriptions|here]] and  [[Wikipedia_talk:Abuse_filter#Help_requested_for_populating_AbuseFilter_tag_wording.2Fdescriptions|here]]) to do more. The tags, themselves, should probably in some form be renamed to their actual abusefilter numbers (or something else easily parseable), so that they can be easily traced back to their generator; or, at the very least, should be made neutral in all high-visibility areas. --[[User:Slakr|<span style="color:teal;font-weight:bold;">slakr</span>]]<small><sup>\&nbsp;[[User talk:Slakr|talk]]&nbsp;/</sup></small> 01:31, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
::I'm not sure what you mean by a mistake, but I now see that one sock has allegedly been using the edit summary "Nonsense movies?". However, in making this as a tag, I would encourage simply shortening it to "Nonsense?". [[Special:Contributions/199.125.109.77|199.125.109.77]] ([[User talk:199.125.109.77|talk]]) 16:25, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
::Correction, I'm not sure where the list of [[Special:Tags]] "Internal tag name" names comes from, and if it is only from the Abuse Filter, then "the software" should be changed to [[Wikipedia:Abuse filter]] [[Special:Contributions/199.125.109.77|199.125.109.77]] ([[User talk:199.125.109.77|talk]]) 16:33, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Currently they only come from the abuse filter, as its a new feature and the abuse filter is the only thing that adds them now, but there's no restriction on where future tags may come from. <span style="font-family:Broadway;">[[User:Mr.Z-man|Mr.]][[User talk:Mr.Z-man|'''''Z-'''man'']]</span> 18:26, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Is there a way to hide the tags? –[[user:xeno|<b style="font-family:verdana; color:black;">xeno</b>]] [[user talk:xeno|<sup style="color:black; font-family:verdana;">talk</sup>]] 18:27, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

:Vote for {{phab|20661}}; when that's fixed, you'll be able to hide or style them with CSS. [[User:Happy-melon|<b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b>]] 18:29, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
::See [[Wikipedia:Tags]]. [[Special:Contributions/199.125.109.77|199.125.109.77]] ([[User talk:199.125.109.77|talk]]) 03:29, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

== search bar!! ==

I would like to suggest a very useful feature to wikipedia, the search bar front and center (top) so people can find what they need quickly, which is the sole purpose of wikipedia. The articles can afford to move down a little bit for a more prominent search bar. Being a web developer, its important to create ui for the user that's the ultimate goal. Its kind of annoying to look for the tiny left column search bar and type your keyword that way. I hope you can fix this problem to better the best web resource ever created.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/173.73.168.77|173.73.168.77]] ([[User talk:173.73.168.77|talk]]) 02:58, 4 May 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:Some redesigns are in progress at our [http://usability.wikimedia.org/ Wikipedia Usability Project], making the search box easier to get at will certainly be part of that! --[[User:Brion VIBBER|brion]] ([[User talk:Brion VIBBER|talk]]) 14:39, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

::Making our search work as well as Google, or allowing Google to index all our pages should be a priority. [[User:Jehochman|Jehochman]] <sup>[[User talk:Jehochman|Talk]]</sup> 15:27, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Is there any way to exclude user and talk pages from Google, yet still allow them to be searched from within Wikipedia? [[Special:Contributions/199.125.109.77|199.125.109.77]] ([[User talk:199.125.109.77|talk]]) 16:36, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
::::{{tl|noindex}} –[[user:xeno|<b style="font-family:verdana; color:black;">xeno</b>]] [[user talk:xeno|<sup style="color:black; font-family:verdana;">talk</sup>]] 16:37, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::If that is added, can text be found from within Wikipedia? And I was looking for a global fix, not one that had to be added in a million places. [[Special:Contributions/199.125.109.77|199.125.109.77]] ([[User talk:199.125.109.77|talk]]) 17:11, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
::::::Robots.txt –[[user:xeno|<b style="font-family:verdana; color:black;">xeno</b>]] [[user talk:xeno|<sup style="color:black; font-family:verdana;">talk</sup>]] 17:17, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
::::::That does not affect Wikipedia's internal search function. As for global fixes, this can easily be done technically, but you'll have to get consensus first, which has proved difficult in the past. See [[Wikipedia:Search engine indexing]]. [[User talk:Algebraist|Algebraist]] 17:22, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::::So we end up with user pages showing up in the top 3 Google hits.[http://www.google.co.uk/search?rlz=1C1GGLS_enGB320GB320&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Georgeos+Diaz-Montexano]. Is it worth raising again? [[User:Dougweller|Dougweller]] ([[User talk:Dougweller|talk]]) 17:49, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
::::::::As I read it the main objection before was that the internal search engine did not works so good, but it has now been fixed, thus removing that objection. If anyone wishes to pursue it, the place to bring it up is at [[WP:VPR]], though. [[Special:Contributions/199.125.109.77|199.125.109.77]] ([[User talk:199.125.109.77|talk]]) 17:54, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
== [[:File:Daniel Roth.jpg]] ==

{{Resolved|1=[[User:Ukexpat|ukexpat]] ([[User talk:Ukexpat|talk]]) 17:05, 5 May 2009 (UTC)}}
This is showing in Firefox but not in IE. I am also told it does not work in Safari. Why might this be? [[User:Stifle|Stifle]] ([[User talk:Stifle/wizard|talk]]) 13:43, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
:Yeah, broken JPEG image (inverted b/w image). I've seen stuff like that before. I have no idea how you can fix it though. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 15:19, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
::Image loads fine for me.  Consider that B/W color inversion is often a matter of data corruption, which can occur if something happens to cause your computer to not download the image correctly. -<span style="font:bold 10px Verdana;display:inline;border:#000066 1px solid;background-color:#ECF1F7;padding:0 4px 0 4px;">[[User:moritheil|moritheil]]</span><sup>[[User_talk:moritheil|Talk]]</sup> 00:47, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Oh sorry, this case had been closed already. A user resaved the image in GiMP and that did the trick. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 00:58, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

== urls containing ] ==

{{Resolved|1=[[User:Ukexpat|ukexpat]] ([[User talk:Ukexpat|talk]]) 17:06, 5 May 2009 (UTC)}}
how do you include an url which contains <nowiki>[]</nowiki> as a reference? It seems to break {{tl|cite web}} as well as a direct external link. [[User:Dramatic|dramatic]] ([[User talk:Dramatic|talk]]) 04:42, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
:Either [[percent-encode]] the '['  and ']' characters, using '%5b' and '%5d' respectively, or use the [[Help:Magic words|magic word]] <nowiki> {{urlencode:[blah]}} </nowiki>. The latter might be a problem if "blah" contains certain special characters, such as "/", so it doesn't seem to be suitable for full urls. I've changed [[Russell Ward]] for you.-[[User talk:gadfium|<span style="font-family:cursive; color:#808080;">gadfium</span>]] 06:18, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

::''Tangentially:''&nbsp;{{Anchor|brackets in pagetitles}} No one answered my question [[Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 59#Brackets in page names|earlier]] about <span class="plainlinks">[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzo%5ba%5dpyrene whether it could be possible to '''allow percent-encoded square brackets in wiki-links''', and hence in article URLs]</span>, like for example <code style="font-size: larger">[[</code>[[Benzo(a)pyrene|Benzo%5ba%5dpyrene]]<code style="font-size: larger">]]</code> ?&nbsp; <small>--[[Special:Contributions/83.253.251.229|83.253.251.229]] ([[User talk:83.253.251.229|talk]]) 17:25, 2 May 2009 (UTC)</small>
:::[, |, and ] will ''never'' be allowed in page titles, ever. You can put them in the link display text, though: [[Example|Foo[bar]baz|boop]] --[[User:MZMcBride|MZMcBride]] ([[User talk:MZMcBride|talk]]) 00:16, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
::::That's what I expected. Thanks for the answer, which I take to be authoritative until someone says otherwise ;-) <small>--[[Special:Contributions/83.253.251.229|83.253.251.229]] ([[User talk:83.253.251.229|talk]]) 18:04, 3 May 2009 (UTC)</small>

== Possible for bot to take wikipedia edit article history information to notify editors of AfDs? ==

{{Resolved|1=[[User:Ukexpat|ukexpat]] ([[User talk:Ukexpat|talk]]) 17:08, 5 May 2009 (UTC)}}
Is it technically possible for a bot to take information off of wikipedia (or the below two webpages) and then contact editors with x amount of edits about an Article for deletion?: 
* [http://vs.aka-online.de/cgi-bin/wppagehiststat.pl web page history], 
* [http://toolserver.org/~daniel/WikiSense/Contributors.php wikisense contributors]
What bot expert can I contact about this? Thank you. [[User:Ikip|Ikip]] ([[User talk:Ikip|talk]]) 14:37, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
:Try [[WP:BOTREQ]]. --[[User:MZMcBride|MZMcBride]] ([[User talk:MZMcBride|talk]]) 22:18, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
::Thanks again McBride. [[User:Ikip|Ikip]] ([[User talk:Ikip|talk]]) 00:10, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

== Navbox issue ==

{{Resolved|1=[[User:Ukexpat|ukexpat]] ([[User talk:Ukexpat|talk]]) 17:09, 5 May 2009 (UTC)}}
Does anyone know how to make the "v/d/e" links disappear from the navbox [[Wikipedia:0.7/0.7index|here]]? I don't see what's up with the template code at the moment. &mdash;&nbsp;Carl <small>([[User:CBM|CBM]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:CBM|talk]])</small> 19:36, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
:An error [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Navbox&diff=prev&oldid=287481485 has been made] recently, which broke the paramater because it was renamed to Navbar instead of navbar. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 19:48, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
::{{done}} issue fixed. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 19:52, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Apologies, I mixed up the Navbar template with the navbar parameter. <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — [[User:Edokter|<span style="color: #008;"><b><i>E</i>dokter</b></span>]] • [[User_talk:Edokter|<span style="color: #080;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 20:46, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

== Code review ==

I need to know what's wrong with this code; IE throws an 'Object expected' on "line 5" (which could be anywhere):

<syntaxhighlight lang="javascript">
function FirstNavbox()
{
    var documentTables = document.getElementsByTagName("table")
    for (var i = 0; i < documentTables.length; i++)
    {
        var table = documentTables[i]
        if (table.className == "navbox")
        {
            table.id = "first-navbox"
            return
        }
    }
}
</syntaxhighlight>
<span style="font-family: verdana;"> — [[User:Edokter|<span style="color: #008;"><b><i>E</i>dokter</b></span>]] • [[User_talk:Edokter|<span style="color: #080;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 16:40, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

:can you point to a page where it throws the error?  my first guess would be that <code>if (table.className == "navbox")</code> might throw an error if the className for the table is undefined, but that's just a guess.

:p.s. oh, wait - try <code>document.getElementsByTagName("table")</code>   --[[User_talk:Ludwigs2|<span style="color:darkblue;font-weight:bold">Ludwigs</span><span style="color:green;font-weight:bold">2</span>]] 17:51, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

::That was it! Thank you. <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — [[User:Edokter|<span style="color: #008;"><b><i>E</i>dokter</b></span>]] • [[User_talk:Edokter|<span style="color: #080;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 18:09, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
::Well, the error is gone, <s>but it does not do what I expected it to do (find the first table with classname=navbox, then assign id=first-navbox)</s> and after the cache caught up, does exactly what is is intended to do. <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — [[User:Edokter|<span style="color: #008;"><b><i>E</i>dokter</b></span>]] • [[User_talk:Edokter|<span style="color: #080;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 18:14, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

== Links missing on userpage? ==

I spend most of my Wikipedia day looking at my Watchlist, and rarely look at [[User:MikeVitale|my main Userpage]], except upon browser start-up.  However, today, after restarting [[Firefox|my normal browser]] mid-day, I returned to find all the normal links on my Userpage were, uh, blank.


For example, the text looks like:
Joined Wikipedia on , .

The source (as rendered in View Source from my browser) looks like:

<pre style="white-space:normal;">
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Joined Wikipedia on &lt;span class="mw-formatted-date" title="2007-08-16"&gt;&lt;span class="mw-formatted-date" title="08-16"&gt;&lt;a href="/wiki/August_16" title="August 16" oaugust=""&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;, &lt;a href="/wiki/2007" title="2007" o2007=""&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;.&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;
</pre>

Obviously, there's no text in between the &lt;a ...&gt;&lt;/a&gt; tags, so nothing is displayed.  But, to the best of my knowledge, I didn't change anything to cause this issue.  

Also, upon further review, this happens in [[Safari (browser)|Safari]] as well, but only if I'm logged in.  How might I fix it?  Thanks!  --[[User:MikeVitale|<span style="color: #ce6300; background: #fff">Mike</span>]][[User_talk:MikeVitale|<span style="color: #fff; background: #ce6300;">Vitale</span>]] 19:20, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
:''May be related to [[Wikipedia:AN#Transient top & sidebar weirdness?]]''. –[[user:xeno|<b style="font-family:verdana; color:black;">xeno</b>]] [[user talk:xeno|<sup style="color:black; font-family:verdana;">talk</sup>]] 19:30, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
::Yes, seems somewhat familiar.  --[[User:MikeVitale|<span style="color: #ce6300; background: #fff">Mike</span>]][[User_talk:MikeVitale|<span style="color: #fff; background: #ce6300;">Vitale</span>]] 20:24, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
== Automatically generated links ==

What's going on here? I've just discovered that expressions like RFC 333, ISBN 9999-456-456 (I don't know what else) get automatically linked to various places. Is this something recent, or has it always been like that and I've only just realized it? What is the idea behind this functionality? Where is it documented? Surely this is the sort of thing we ought to be using templates for, not have links created when they might be totally inappropriate. (See [[WT:MOS#RFC 1924 links in headers]] for a recent discussion which shows the undesirability of this feature.)--[[User:Kotniski|Kotniski]] ([[User talk:Kotniski|talk]]) 06:35, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
:Looks like <s>new</s> old [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Help:Magic&diff=210133995&oldid=196983378] feature from this link. --[[User:Stefan|Stefan]] [[User_talk:Stefan|<sup>talk</sup>]] 08:43, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
:Since 2003 at least [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:ISBN&oldid=731533]. See [[Help:Magic#ISBN, RFC and PMID automatic links]] and [[Wikipedia:ISBN]]. -- [[User:Quiddity|Quiddity]] ([[User talk:Quiddity|talk]]) 08:58, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
::Hmm, so it looks like another example of a not-too-great idea that got fossilized in. And of how some feature documentation is hidden away on almost impossible-to-find pages. (I've added the information to [[Help:Link]] to make it perhaps a bit more accessible.)--[[User:Kotniski|Kotniski]] ([[User talk:Kotniski|talk]]) 09:40, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
:::I used google advanced search for only en.wikipedia.org to find the page and I had to try with 2 or 3 combinations to find it. --[[User:Stefan|Stefan]] [[User_talk:Stefan|<sup>talk</sup>]] 09:46, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
::::Remember, "a not-too-great idea" is ''your opinion'', and is not necessarily true for all people in the world. I quite like it, and find it very handy, frequently.
::::If you search "isbn" from the main help page, [[Help:Contents]], the results are instant. ;) -- [[User:Quiddity|Quiddity]] ([[User talk:Quiddity|talk]]) 18:09, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::Yes, true. But not if you start from "RFC" (and that was what raised the problem - it was a complete accident that I noticed the same thing was happening with ISBN on my way over).--[[User:Kotniski|Kotniski]] ([[User talk:Kotniski|talk]]) 08:13, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

I think this feature was created before templates existed. Generally speaking, our approach in the past was to automatically format things, rather than adding reams of template code to do it as we do now. I think a lot of people still consider the old approach far superior. &mdash; [[User:Werdna|<span style="font-weight: bold; color: #404080">Werdna</span>]]&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;[[User talk:Werdna|<span style="color: #8080b0">talk</span>]] 17:35, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
:It's a bit of a mess.  ISBN 123456789X is picked up by the wiki-magic, but ISBN-10 123456789X isn't and a phrase like ISBN 123456789X, 987654321X is only half done.  There's a bug report out there somewhere.  [[User:Mr Stephen|Mr Stephen]] ([[User talk:Mr Stephen|talk]]) 21:09, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
::That isn't a bug, it's a feature. You have to take out the -10 or -13 and just use ISBN followed by the 10 or 13 digit number, with or without spaces or hyphens. [[Special:Contributions/199.125.109.75|199.125.109.75]] ([[User talk:199.125.109.75|talk]]) 04:38, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

== [[Template:Boxboxtop]] not working correctly in Firefox or Chrome ==

I've recently come back to my Wikipedia page ([[User:Xnux]]) after a while to discover that the template I use to organize my userboxes isn't displaying correctly in certain browsers. When I click one of the first four "[show]" buttons on that template, the other "[show]" buttons are not moved down; instead, they overlap the userboxes. This happens in Mozilla Firefox 3.0.10 and Google Chrome 1.0.154.64, but not in Internet Explorer 8.0.6001.18762. Does anyone have advice or suggestions? Thanks, [[User:Xnux|<span style = "color: #009900">'''Xnux'''</span>]] [[User talk:Xnux|<span style = "color: #000000">'''the'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Xnux|<span style = "color: #009900">'''Echidna'''</span>]] 02:27, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

:I have ran a [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%3AScepia%2Fcvg&diff=288235506&oldid=276003465 test]. The cause of this problem is the "float:left" that all the userboxes have. The HTML of UBX'es boggles my mind btw. I have no idea how that came to be, but it's truly beyond saving. I don't think there is any way you can quickly solve this problem. I'll ask AzaToth about some of the original decisions in userbox layout, perhaps he has a clue. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 09:31, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

::I suspect the problem has to do with using collapsible divs inside collapsible tables.  let me see if I can fix it by converting the inner sections to {{tl|userboxtop}} format.  --[[User_talk:Ludwigs2|<span style="color:darkblue;font-weight:bold">Ludwigs</span><span style="color:green;font-weight:bold">2</span>]] 13:08, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

::yeah, that was it.  I've fixed it on your page.  I'm debating whether I should add a note about it somewhere...  --[[User_talk:Ludwigs2|<span style="color:darkblue;font-weight:bold">Ludwigs</span><span style="color:green;font-weight:bold">2</span>]] 13:35, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

== Watchlisting single pages ==

Can [[Special:Watchlist]] not be used to watchlist only the main article? It can be useful sometimes if e.g. a talk page has more traffic than its corresponding main page or vice versa and ideally only the latter is watched. -- [[User:Mentifisto|<span style="color:#800080; font-family:courier new;">Menti</span>]][[User talk:Mentifisto|<span style="color:#000000; font-family:courier new;">fisto</span>]] 03:36, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
:Nope. Though you could possibly hide them with css. --[[User:Splarka|Splarka]] ([[User_talk:Splarka|rant]]) 07:17, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
::You can create a user subpage containing links to only the precise pages you want to watch, and then look at the [[Help:Related changes|related changes]] of that page. Functionally, it's pretty much the same as a watchlist. You can link to the changes with <nowiki>[[Special:RelatedChanges/Pagename]]</nowiki> for quick access. [[User:Someguy1221|Someguy1221]] ([[User talk:Someguy1221|talk]]) 07:22, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Yes but that would render an (ajax) watchlist notifier unusable. :-) -- [[User:Mentifisto|<span style="color:#800080; font-family:courier new;">Menti</span>]][[User talk:Mentifisto|<span style="color:#000000; font-family:courier new;">fisto</span>]] 08:32, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
:This question came up a little while ago and resulted in [[Wikipedia:Hide Pages in Watchlist]]. [[User talk:Algebraist|Algebraist]] 11:27, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
::Thanks for that. -- [[User:Mentifisto|<span style="color:#800080; font-family:courier new;">Menti</span>]][[User talk:Mentifisto|<span style="color:#000000; font-family:courier new;">fisto</span>]] 13:04, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

::A decent workaround, but why can't this just be sorted in the code? I have so many javascripts rewriting the look of pages it starts to get distracting. –[[user:xeno|<b style="font-family:verdana; color:black;">xeno</b>]] [[user talk:xeno|<sup style="color:black; font-family:verdana;">talk</sup>]] 13:40, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

:Article & talk pages are always treated as a unit for the watchlist -- this is vital, since otherwise you would never see discussion updates that are relevant to your article, or article updates that reflect the discussion. It's a deliberate architectural choice and we have no intention of changing it. --[[User:Brion VIBBER|brion]] ([[User talk:Brion VIBBER|talk]]) 15:04, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
::But sometimes a talk page generates so much discussion (trolling and the like) that you don't want your watchlist flooded with, although you ''do'' want to see if anything actually changes on the article itself (or it could be a policy page, for example). I don't think this is the kind of choice that the devs should be making for us - if it's easy enough to change, then please give us the option and we'll decide for ourselves whether we want to use it.--[[User:Kotniski|Kotniski]] ([[User talk:Kotniski|talk]]) 15:19, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
:::I often want to watch, say, the FA of the day simply for any talk page stuff that comes up. There's also the most obvious example -- user pages, usually you wouldn't need to worry about the 'article' page in that case. [[User:Melodia|♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫]] ([[User talk:Melodia|talk]]) 17:08, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

== Code corrupts my talk page ==

Could someone take a look at the last few sections of my talk page as some code which I'm unable to debug makes all subsequent entries indent. __[[User:Meco|meco]] ([[User talk:Meco|talk]]) 08:56, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
:It is the {{tl|football squad}} template in [[User talk:Meco#Mostafa Abdellaoue]]. I don't know why it is doing it, but you can comment it out or remove it. ---'''''—&nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]<span style="color:darkblue">&nbsp;</span>'''''<sup>[[User talk:Gadget850|''talk'']]</sup> 10:59, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
:It's because the football squad template is a full width template and shouldn't be indented. Removing the indent fixes the page. [[User:Nanonic|Nanonic]] ([[User talk:Nanonic|talk]]) 11:39, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
::Much apperciated! __[[User:Meco|meco]] ([[User talk:Meco|talk]]) 11:46, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

== Opening Wikipedia in MIME ==

I rely heavily on Wikipedia but since recently updating to Windows Internet Explorer 8 I have been unable to open Wikipedia pages (in English). I am given: “Do you want to save this file, or find a program online to open it” followed by “Name: Viticulture, Type Unknown File Type, 18.1KB, From en.wikipedia.org”. A click on Find tells me: “Windows does not recognize this MIMI type.” !!! Note: I am a Wikipedia reader, not an editor. How can I return to accessing your pages? (I first tried to find a solution on the Help Desk and was told to try the Village Pump.)  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/93.41.186.175|93.41.186.175]] ([[User talk:93.41.186.175|talk]]) 10:28, 6 May 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:18.1 KB is roughly the size of the first image in the [[Viticulture]] article. It sounds like IE8 is unable to recognize the .jpg file type. I have no idea why that would be. Going back to IE7 might be your best bet until IE8 is a little more stable. [[User:Franamax|Franamax]] ([[User talk:Franamax|talk]]) 11:46, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

:Make sure the box in the editing tab of [[Special:Preferences|your preferences]] entitled "Use external editor by default (for experts only, needs special settings on your computer)" is unchecked. Otherwise, I don't know. '''[[User:Graham87|Graham]]'''[[User talk:Graham87|<span style="color:green;">87</span>]] 01:24, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

::That would only be a problem if you were logged in. If you're logged out, you should be able to view all pages properly; if not, it's something to do with your computer or browser. IE 8 has been around for a while, and this issue hasn't been reportedt, so it probably doesn't occur in the default installation of that browser unless something else is wrong. '''[[User:Graham87|Graham]]'''[[User talk:Graham87|<span style="color:green;">87</span>]] 01:30, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

== tables and divs ==

has anyone else noticed that tables and divs don't play well together? at least not in Safari, and sometimes in Firefox and Google Chrome.  see the changes I made from [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Xnux&oldid=286191526 here] to [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Xnux&direction=next&oldid=288263897 here] on [[User:Xnux]], and a similar problem I had on [[Template:WikiProject_Footer]] between [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:WikiProject_Footer&oldid=287479986 this] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:WikiProject_Footer&oldid=287731292 this].  the first case, the collapsible divs inside the {{tl|userboxtop}} table were overwriting each other for no particularly good reason; in the second, {{tl|WPCouncilRec}} (which is a table) was getting sucked into the outer div of the old version of the footer template on Safari.  I think it might have something to do with the way 'float' elements work inside of containers, but I can't tell whether this is a rendering bug in Safari and/or Firefox, or an inheritance issue in wikipedia's CSS (or maybe just my bad luck to see similar problems in quick succession?).  if others have noticed it, I'll set up a test case page so we can figure it out.  --[[User_talk:Ludwigs2|<span style="color:darkblue;font-weight:bold">Ludwigs</span><span style="color:green;font-weight:bold">2</span>]] 16:40, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

:It's pretty old news. Tables and (floating) divs have never played well toghether, and not just on Wikipedia. Divs were heraulded as a replacement for tables when used for page layout, but have serious shortcoming. Whenever possible, whenever (a combinations of) boxes require more control over placement, we tend te deprecate divs in favor of tables. That is why most newer templates (ie. Navbox and Ambox) are built with tables using native HTML. <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — [[User:Edokter|<span style="color: #008;"><b><i>E</i>dokter</b></span>]] • [[User_talk:Edokter|<span style="color: #080;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 16:51, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
::Yup, inherent to the widely differing boxmodels used for tables and div's. (Note that in some modern browsers, you can give a div "table-like" behaviour, by specifying "display:table" instead of "display:block".) All in all, the div model basically does not work as many people expect, and even more so in Wikipedia. This quickly leads to errors. Combined with the many bugs that used to exist in div rendering, tables simply behave more consistent among many browsers, and it is the reason why both *mbox and navbox code has been designed to use tables. But to reiterate the UBX issue: "Lack of design". —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 17:16, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

== Categorization of "books" ==

See [[Wikipedia talk:Criteria for speedy deletion#Amending or clarifying general criteria for books]] for the problem and discussion. [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] ([[User talk:Uncle G|talk]]) 23:01, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
== Unified login ==

This may have been asked before many times, so apologies if it has.  Are there any plans to properly unify the login, so your edits are moved over & also, so if you want to, you can use the same userpage?  Thanks. [[User:Dottydotdot|dottydotdot]] ([[User talk:Dottydotdot|talk]]) 19:59, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
:What do you mean by "your edits are moved over"?? [[User:Happy-melon|<b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b>]] 22:09, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
::So that if you have edited Wikipedia say 500 times, then those edits are mirrored on a different site? [[User:Dottydotdot|dottydotdot]] ([[User talk:Dottydotdot|talk]]) 07:40, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
:::But why would they need to be mirrored? The content that was edited is not duplicated to that other site, unless it is imported. [[User:Happy-melon|<b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b>]] 07:51, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
:I do believe that some work has been done on creating global preferences. So that you would only need to set your signature and timezone once. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 09:48, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
::So that somehow, it would show that you had 500 edits on Wikipedia & you're not completely new.  I was just wondering if there were any plans to make it a bit more "unified" but I can see the want to keep them separate.  Cheers [[User:Dottydotdot|dottydotdot]] ([[User talk:Dottydotdot|talk]]) 10:16, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Showing that you have made 500 edits when you haven't would be wrong. There are several tools people can use to see how new someone is more reliably than that anyways. &nbsp;'''&mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Mike.lifeguard|<b style="color:#309;">Mike</b>]].[[User talk:Mike.lifeguard|<b style="color:#309;">lifeguard</b>]]'''&nbsp;&#124;&nbsp;<sup>[[b:User talk:Mike.lifeguard|<span style="color:#309;">@en.wb</span>]]</sup> 19:18, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
:The proposal to mirror edits across projects is consistent with the notion of a "unified identity" which is quite different from the notion of "unified login".  "Unified login" is a user interface convenience, but "unified identity" changes in basic ways how the editor role is implemented. --User:Ceyockey (<small>''[[User talk:Ceyockey|talk to me]]''</small>) 11:30, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Well if you want to show somebody how many edits you have on all projects you can use something like [http://toolserver.org/~vvv/sulutil.php?user=Dottydotdot this]. — [[User talk:CharlotteWebb|CharlotteWebb]] 16:28, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

== Preview page expiring ==

I've been having problems with edit preview pages expiring under Internet Explorer 7.0.6001.18000. If I navigate away to check a detail and return IE says that the page is expired. Sometimes even it claims not to bable to find the page when I finish an edit. This problem, has only appeared in the last couple of days.--[[User:Peter cohen|Peter cohen]] ([[User talk:Peter cohen|talk]]) 10:40, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
:This is a general problem IE has with forms (it also tends to lose any changed values in the form). Your best bet would be to get into the habit of opening new tabs/windows for looking stuff up while you have an edit window open (or you could upgrade [[Google Chrome|to]] [[Safari (web browser)|a]] [[Mozilla Firefox|real]] [[Opera (web browser)|browser]] ;) ). <span style="white-space: nowrap;">「[[User:Dinoguy1000|ダイノ]][[User talk:Dinoguy1000|<span style="color: #080; font-weight: normal;">ガイ</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Dinoguy1000|<span style="color: #F90;">千</span>]]？！」<sup>(Dinoguy1000)</sup></span> 22:06, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
::Thanks for the reply. I thought my question might have been missed for good. So last night I uninstalled three addons to try and fix some performance problems which have also appeared recently. Those improved straight away and now experimenting while typing this reply I do appear to have fixed the problem.
:: I wasn't paying proper attention to what I was being asked when I grabbed some trial software until I had already said yes to  a couple of "do you want to install this?" questions - I had assumed they would be about the shareware and not other crap. Anyway uninstalling the lot seems to have fixed things. The culprit was one of [[Relevant Knowledge]], [[Smartshopper]] or a toolbar that wasn't Yahoo or Google. Is it worth noting these candidates for future reference should someone else experience similar difficulties?--[[User:Peter cohen|Peter cohen]] ([[User talk:Peter cohen|talk]]) 22:39, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
<s>You can check the FAQ at [http://www.ie7.com/ IE7.com].</s> If you have this problem you need to avoid navigating away from the edit window. I believe [[User:Dinoguy1000/scripts/safeIEeditlinks.js|this script]] will prevent loss of form data by forcing all links to open in a new window when accessed from the edit screen. It's been changed quite a bit since the original version (see [[Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 42#"What's this?" link next to the minor edit checkbox should open in a new window|previous thread]]) so I can't vouch for it offhand. — [[User talk:CharlotteWebb|CharlotteWebb]] 02:56, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

== Please write me a script for "subpages of this page" ==

This is probably quite simple:

A button in "toolbox" called "Subpages" that leads to 
<pre>
[[Special:PrefixIndex/{{FULLPAGENAME}}/]]
</pre>

Thanks in advance, ye javascript wizards! –[[user:xeno|<b style="font-family:verdana; color:black;">xeno</b>]] [[user talk:xeno|<sup style="color:black; font-family:verdana;">talk</sup>]] 14:57, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

<syntaxhighlight lang="javascript">
addOnloadHook( function () {
  addPortletLink("p-tb",
    wgServer + wgArticlePath.replace("$1", "Special:PrefixIndex/" + wgPageName + "/"),
    "Subpages", "t-subpages", "See all subpages of this page");
  });
</syntaxhighlight>
-- <span style="font-family:Broadway;">[[User:Mr.Z-man|Mr.]][[User talk:Mr.Z-man|'''''Z-'''man'']]</span> 15:19, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
:Works great - youda(Z)man ! =) thanks. –[[user:xeno|<b style="font-family:verdana; color:black;">xeno</b>]] [[user talk:xeno|<sup style="color:black; font-family:verdana;">talk</sup>]] 15:50, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
I've been using something just like this except that it adds a tab at the top instead, and it uses something like:
<pre>wgPageName.replace(/_\(.*\)$/, "")</pre>
Instead of just wgPageName because I like to cut out disambiguation terms e.g. "_(song)" and "_(dance)" to make it useful in article space. Might cause problems if you're looking for sub-pages of the village pump so it's up to you. — [[User talk:CharlotteWebb|CharlotteWebb]] 03:00, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

== navbox class loses collapsible argument? ==

<small>Crossposted from [[Wikipedia:Help desk#navbox class loses collapsible argument?|help desk]]</small> 

Has the navbox class lost the ability to use the <code>collapsible</code> argument?  That is, are constructs like:

<nowiki>
{| class="navbox collapsible" 
</nowiki>

&nbsp;|-

&nbsp;<yada yada>

<nowiki>
|}
</nowiki>

now pointless with respect to the <code>collapsible</code> part?  When I use them, the resulting boxes look right other than there is no collapsibility there at all. Has something changed recently with the underlying code?   Thanks, [[User:Baccyak4H|Baccyak4H]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Baccyak4H|Yak!]]) 18:23, 6 May 2009 (UTC)


You can't collapse without a title:

<pre>{| class="navbox collapsible" 
!Title
|-
|&nbsp;<yada yada>
|}</pre>

{| class="navbox collapsible" 
!Title
|-
|&nbsp;<yada yada>
|}
---'''''—&nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]<span style="color:darkblue">&nbsp;</span>'''''<sup>[[User talk:Gadget850|''talk'']]</sup> 19:15, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
::Thanks.  Has it always been that way?  [[User:Baccyak4H|Baccyak4H]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Baccyak4H|Yak!]]) 04:24, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Yes.  The show/hide button is added to the first header cell encountered, so if there's no header cell, there's no collapse button. Plus even if you could add a button, clicking it would hide the entire table... [[User:Happy-melon|<b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b>]] 07:42, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

::::Thanks again.  I'll keep that in mind although I suspect a wikisoftware hiccup, as it seemed the titles were always there.  Resolved {{=)}} [[User:Baccyak4H|Baccyak4H]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Baccyak4H|Yak!]]) 20:22, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

== Interwiki link problem ==

I was trying to link to [http://stable.toolserver.org/editcount/result?username=Ost316&projectname=enwiki&showgraphs=2d my edit counter] on my Userpage using an interwiki link [[stable:editcount/result?username=Ost316&projectname=enwiki&showgraphs=2d|like this]].  It seems that the interwiki markup converts ''&'', ''?'', and ''=''.  Why is interwiki link rendered broken but the external link is fine?  Is this behavior necessary for the interwiki links? —[[User:Ost316|Ost]] ([[User talk:Ost316|talk]]) 21:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
:It seems MediaWiki treats all double-bracketed links the same way, as if they were internal links, so <tt>?</tt> and <tt>&</tt> are always percent encoded, as partly explained on [[WP:Naming conventions (technical restrictions)#Question mark]]. I would say this issue is similar to using [[google:a b]] which produce an URL with <tt>a_b</tt> search query instead of <tt>a+b</tt> —[[User:Alex Smotrov|AlexSm]] 05:05, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
::Thank you for the explanation.  I see that [[bugzilla:15274]] deals with the underscores in google links.  Would it make sense to add the other characters into this bug or has the community decided that this is acceptable behavior for interwiki links? —[[User:Ost316|Ost]] ([[User talk:Ost316|talk]]) 19:42, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, it sanitizes the title just as it would that of a wiki page. You'd be better off just using a template for this. One probably already exists. That way you can update the url as needed, and by that I mean at least a dozen formerly popular edit-counter tools have for some reason quit working or become obsolete/next-to-useless. — [[User talk:CharlotteWebb|CharlotteWebb]] 15:43, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
:Thanks for the advice.  I'll look for a template to this edit counter. —[[User:Ost316|Ost]] ([[User talk:Ost316|talk]]) 19:42, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

== Tables versus divs with floating maps ==

I'm trying to improve the appearance of this article: [[2009 NCAA Women's Division I Basketball Tournament]]. The site had a list of the automatic bids (in Qualifying teams section.) I created a map of the automatic bids to correspond to the teams. I also created a list of the At-large teams, and a map corresponding to them. However, placing the map as "float right" leaves the maps poorly placed relative to the lists. The first list is a two column list I tried changing it to one column, but that makes it worse, as the map floats further down the page. My current thinking is to convert the list to a table, so I have control over the width, and make it narrow enough so that the map is placed to the right of the list, then do the same for the second list. Is there a better way to ensure that the map of the automatic bids is tot he right of the list, and the map of the at-large teams is to the right of the list? (I wrote this question before noticing the discussion about tables and divs just above - it sounds like I should use tables, but please let me know if there are more elegant solutions.)[[User:Sphilbrick|Sphilbrick]] ([[User talk:Sphilbrick|talk]]) 22:19, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

:To prevent the maps from being pushed down, you need to place them at the top of the section. That way, the rest of the section wraps around the map. I've moved them up, hope that helps a bit. <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — [[User:Edokter|<span style="color: #008;"><b><i>E</i>dokter</b></span>]] • [[User_talk:Edokter|<span style="color: #080;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 12:29, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

== Text in watchlist but not in edit summary ==

Four articles on my watchlist (all [[list of counties in Iowa|Iowa counties]]) have showed up with unusual text.  Here's one example of the format as it is on the watchlist, except with no links:

(diff) (hist) . . Winneshiek County, Iowa‎; 19:17 . . (+100) . . 63.85.46.11 (talk | block) (→''External links'') (possibly inappropriate external links) [rollback]

Two unusual and confusing bits here:
#How is it that the "possibly inappropriate external links" isn't in italics?
#Much more importantly, when you look at the [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Winneshiek_County,_Iowa&curid=95905&diff=288323753&oldid=288303345 diff], there is absolutely no edit summary at all.

Is this some new technical feature to help us spot spam?  I'm a bit confused over this.  [[User:Nyttend|Nyttend]] ([[User talk:Nyttend|talk]]) 02:30, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

:It's the Abuse Filter. See [[Special:Tags]] for more of these new 'tags'. --[[User:AuburnPilot|<span style="color:#000080;">auburn</span><span style="color:#CC5500;">pilot</span>]]&nbsp;[[User_talk:AuburnPilot|<small>talk</small>]] 02:44, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
:See also [[Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Change tagging activated|Change tagging activated]] and [[Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 120#References removed automatically appended to edit summaries|References removed automatically appended to edit summaries]] above. The new tags seem to have confused quite a few people. --[[User:AuburnPilot|<span style="color:#000080;">auburn</span><span style="color:#CC5500;">pilot</span>]]&nbsp;[[User_talk:AuburnPilot|<small>talk</small>]] 02:46, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
::Sorry if this seems like an insulting comment, but I don't understand how anyone thought it would be helpful for these "tags" to suddenly appear on everyone's watchlist without explanation. If I understand the situation correctly, any admin can give themselves rights to edit the abuse filters. Perhaps one would be kind enough to edit the "tags" so that the link back to the filters that added the tag or at the very least to an explanatory page (i.e. <nowiki>[[WP:ABUSEFILTER|no soup for you]]</nowiki>)? [[User:Delicious carbuncle|Delicious carbuncle]] ([[User talk:Delicious carbuncle|talk]]) 03:58, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
::::I'll be perfectly honest: yes, that is an insulting comment.  It essentially discards the hard work of the numerous developers, many of them volunteers, who were responsible for developing a useful feature of MediaWiki, purely because the changes was not rolled out in a manner you thought was appropriate.  I'm sure many people would agree, myself included, that this improvement should have been better documented for maximum usability.  I don't think many people would take your view that you would rather avoid a few days confusion by not having new features at all.  The developers are writing software for 800 WMF wikis and thousands of independent ones; MediaWiki is not Wikipedia's plaything.  Werdna's comment above was more than enwiki deserved. [[User:Happy-melon|<b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b>]] 07:52, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::Hang on a minute there! This isn't about Mediawiki development and please don't try to turn it into that. My comment in no way relates to the potential usefulness of this feature, nor to the fine work done by developers. The confusion this has generated here on enwiki was entirely avoidable. Merely ''having'' the capability to tag edits doesn't mean that ''using'' that capability should precede informing the thousands of enwiki users who will be seeing them in their watchlists. Unless I'm missing something here -- and I might be -- interested editors can look at the filter hits (eg [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:AbuseLog&wpSearchFilter=3 filter 3]) or the tagged edits (eg [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&tagfilter=blanking "blanking"]) and see the same information, so not using tags at enwiki wouldn't actually delay anything. Did I miss a sitenotice saying that "you may notice new things in your watchlist"? Why can't the tags be linked to an explanatory page? These are each simple steps that seem to have been missed. Why is communication so lacking on a change which affects all users? This is meant to a collaborative project. [[User:Delicious carbuncle|Delicious carbuncle]] ([[User talk:Delicious carbuncle|talk]]) 14:58, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Could someone please add a link to [[Wikipedia:Tags]] from [[Special:Tags]]? Thanks. [[Special:Contributions/199.125.109.75|199.125.109.75]] ([[User talk:199.125.109.75|talk]]) 04:34, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
::::You may like to place an {{tl|editprotected}} request for [[MediaWiki:tags-intro]] &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 07:50, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::{{done}}. It's [[MediaWiki:Tags-intro]], for future reference. [[User:Happy-melon|<b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b>]] 07:52, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
::::::I was thinking that a link to [[Wikipedia:Abuse filter]] would also be helpful. &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 07:56, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

== oops, template loop? ==

What happened [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:OlEnglish/Todo_list&diff=next&oldid=288423015 here]? It's all messed up! -- '''[[User:OlEnglish|OlEnglish]]''' <sup>([[User talk:OlEnglish|Talk]])</sup> 07:34, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
:Sure is. This
<pre>{{{{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}}}}</pre>
(which would anyway be easier to write as <nowiki>{{FULLPAGENAME}}</nowiki>) makes the page transclude itself! &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 07:41, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Now you've done it, you've spilled the [[WP:BEANS]]. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:OlEnglish/Todo_list&diff=288481366&oldid=288461967] :)
-- '''[[User:OlEnglish|OlEnglish]]''' <sup>([[User talk:OlEnglish|Talk]])</sup> 14:59, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Well lucky thing there's some protection against this. Tell ya what does make my head hurt, the way self-transclusion is okay on, err… self-documenting templates—you know (that I know that you know), the ones where the template transcludes the doc-page which transcludes the template which… never mind! — [[User talk:CharlotteWebb|CharlotteWebb]] 15:18, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

== Not seeing system messages ==

{{resolved}}
A lot of system messages do not appear for me. For example, [[MediaWiki:Tags-intro]] was edited (two threads above) but I still see the default message.

Another example: [[MediaWiki:Uncategorizedcategories-summary]] was changed from the default (by [[User:WOSlinker|WOSlinker]]'s request) but I still see the default message on [[Special:UncategorizedCategories]].

This is not a cache issue before anyone asks. I can see these messages on my alternate account, but not on my main account. I've cleared all the gadgets and scripts in case they were interfering. Is there another option somewhere that I've not noticed? Thanks, &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 08:02, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
:Have you changed your account's language setting, to en-gb for example? [[User talk:Algebraist|Algebraist]] 19:05, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
::Wow, thanks. That was it! &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 20:12, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

== menu for Commons images on English Wikipedia ==

If we go to any file page that is linked to a Commons image, like [[:File:Stellar aberration.JPG]] for example, one of the menus on the top of the page shows "Create this page". I understand that Commons images are not editable on en.wikipedia, hence we don't have the "edit this page" menu when we view it here. But "Create this page" is totally confusing when we're already seeing the page. Is there any meta article which has got a clarification? [[User:Jay|Jay]] ([[User talk:Jay|talk]]) 08:25, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

:<s>"edit" on file/image pages means editing the file or image description page, not editing the file/image. For commons images, one could still create a local image description page.</s> -- User:Docu
:You might rather be looking for something like [[:mw:Manual:Image_Administration#Foreign_Repositories]], but more is still to be written. -- User:Docu
::I was looking at the usability aspect of it. For this specific case I would consider the "Create this page" menu a usability bug, since the user is already "seeing" the page. Further, on clicking the menu, it takes to a page which says "Please do not manually create this page." and I don't know what that could mean. Also the page title now says "Editing File:xxx". It's all confusing. [[User:Jay|Jay]] ([[User talk:Jay|talk]]) 11:20, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
:::You could edit the mediawiki message that says "create this page" to blank it for that namespace. -- User:Docu
::::Actually, it is useful. You can put a Commons image into a Wikipedia category. ---'''''—&nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]<span style="color:darkblue">&nbsp;</span>'''''<sup>[[User talk:Gadget850|''talk'']]</sup> 13:11, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::Exactly, this is what I was attempting to do! I added categories to Wikipedia images without a problem, but hit a block with the Commons images. "Create this page" is not intuitive when you want to add an already existing page (that's what a user sees) to a category. Moreover there is this warning of "Please do not manually create this page." The warning brings up the doubt - as opposed to creating the page in what other way ? [[User:Jay|Jay]] ([[User talk:Jay|talk]]) 13:19, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
I think for a commons image, the "edit" button should probably be hacked to use a url which edits the commons image (and the other tabs should behave similarly). Of course anything short of disabling page creation in namespace six without upload will be inherently sloppy. Supposing there is some compelling reason to create a local '''''non-image image page''''' corresponding to a commons image, there is no local notification when the latter is deleted, no way to get a list of local pages orphaned in this fashion, no red link in local talk pages where the now-deleted image was once discussed, etc. Also if I wanted to figure out what percentage of locally uploaded images are "fair use" or what percentage are free and should be moved to commons, discrepancies like this will royally scupper up my numbers.

Of course I've often wondered why so many people are hesitant about making commons-related edits on that site rather than here (well I do have a few theories I won't get into right now).

I know categorization of images is a widely neglected task, and I can't fault anyone for being interested in doing it but I'd offer the following rules of thumb based on the license status of the images in the category you are creating: (a) If they are all "fair use", just ignore my advice. (b) If some of them are "fair use" and some of them are free images on the commons, create a category here and a category there (both with the same name) and link between them with something like {{tl|commonscat}}. (c) If some of them are free images despite being uploaded locally, move them to commons (so that they can be shared with other projects) and go back to "b". (d) If they are all on commons but you want a category to exist locally (just in case "fair use" images might be added in the future) I personally think a visibly empty category with a link to commons (using {{tl|commonscat}} or even {{tl|softredirect}}) would be more useful than a category chock-full of empty local image pages, ones which contain nothing but a link back to the category (and which as far as the software is concerned are not associated with any particular image except by coincidence). — [[User talk:CharlotteWebb|CharlotteWebb]] 15:09, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
:I understand the problem you mentioned about creating local categories for the virtual Commons pages. But is it allowed today to create the local categories? If so what is happening to the local (description?) page when the Commons image is deleted?
:In your solution (d), what do you mean by a visibly empty category? Can you give an example of such a category. [[User:Jay|Jay]] ([[User talk:Jay|talk]]) 18:17, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
::A1: I'm sure it's allowed but I think it's a bad idea for the predescribed reasons (and I consider the software flawed for smiling and nodding when an description page has no image, or vice versa in a few stranger cases). A2: Probably nothing until somebody navigates through the category by chance, clicks on the file-name and discovers that no image exists—this could take years. A3: In this context I meant a category where the lack of local images belonging to it is obvious. A4: (If you mean one that is kept perpetually empty with a link to commons) no, none offhand but it might be worth considering in certain cases. — [[User talk:CharlotteWebb|CharlotteWebb]] 19:20, 7 May 2009 (UTC)


How about adding a link to edit the commons description at [[MediaWiki:Sharedupload]]? It should make clear in one way or the other that one starts editing there. -- User:Docu

== Implementing the Bottom class for a WikiProject ==

Hi there, we at the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Chess]] would like to implement the occurence "Bottom" in the [[Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team/Release_Version_Criteria#Importance_of_topic|importance]] ladder for the assessment of the articles in the scope of our project. Other projects like [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Dungeons & Dragons|WikiProject Dungeons & Dragons]] or [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Rocketry#Importance_scale|WikiProject_Rocketry]] have already implemented it successfully, but when we tried to modify our [[Template:Chess-WikiProject]] it just, well, failed. Would someone knowledgeable enough please explain to us how to do it (or do it straight away) ? [[User:SyG|SyG]] ([[User talk:SyG|talk]]) 18:02, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
:Already {{Fixed}} thanks to [[User talk:MSGJ]]. Regards, [[User:SunCreator|SunCreator]] ([[User talk:SunCreator|talk]]) 18:07, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

== Revert ==

Hi I made this [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Liam_Neeson&diff=288555888&oldid=288554514 revert] using Twinle it appears to have removed what I wanted, but when I look at the article page the text is still there, but if I go to edit it the text is not there. I have refreshed the page a couple of times but it still appears. Any ideas what is happening. <strong>[[User:BigDunc|<span style="font-family:Ariel Black;color:Green">BigDunc</span>]]</strong>[[User_talk:BigDunc|<sup><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:Orange">Talk</span></sup>]] 21:48, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
:Try [[WP:BYC|CTRL+F5]]? &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 21:55, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
:: It is sorted now but I had pressed F5, I use Opera as my browser and have it set to always check if cached paged is updated on the server, maybe going a bit slow thanks for the reply. <strong>[[User:BigDunc|<span style="font-family:Ariel Black;color:Green">BigDunc</span>]]</strong>[[User_talk:BigDunc|<sup><span style="font-family:Verdana;color:Orange">Talk</span></sup>]] 22:05, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

== Review of user script ==

Would anyone like to give feedback on [[User:M/monobook.js]]? You can import the script in the usual ways. It uses jQuery and a couple of other libraries. Part of it simply cleans up the main edit page. The more interesting part is a 'shortcut editor'. When you highlight a phrase of text (sometimes works with links), an alert box will pop up asking you to rephrase what you selected. Cancel abandons, ok saves your new wording to the page. An edit summary is automatically generated, you can look at some of my contribs for examples. (e.g. ', in total about' → ' totalling aproximately '). Invalid highlighted text will pop up a debug alert, as will success upon hitting ok. These can be commented out. The script reloads the page when done, but this can be commented out also. Suggestions and patches are appreciated. If something doesn't make sense, I can comment it. [[User:M|&ndash;M]]<sup>[[User_talk:M|T]]</sup> 23:31, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
== Banner ==

You know the banner displayed in the Wikipedia pages for users? The one with the greenish-blue lettering and a "<small>[help us with translations!]</small>" on the side? I accidently dismised it, and can't find how to brng it back...<span style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica">[[User:Resident Mario|<b style="color:black;">Res</b>]][[User_talk:Resident_Mario#top|<span style="color:black;">Mar</span>]]</span> 21:45, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
:Try clearing your cookies. If you're not sure how to do that, please say which browser you're using. [[User:Tra|Tra]] [[User:Tra/MyComments|(Talk)]] 22:12, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

:The vote it was advertising ended on May 3. <span style="font-family:Broadway;">[[User:Mr.Z-man|Mr.]][[User talk:Mr.Z-man|'''''Z-'''man'']]</span> 00:12, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
::IE8. <span style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica">[[User:Resident Mario|<b style="color:black;">Res</b>]][[User_talk:Resident_Mario#top|<span style="color:black;">Mar</span>]]</span> 18:51, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
:::If you get this problem in future, you can clear your cookies by going to Tools &gt; Delete Browsing History &gt; Delete cookies &gt; Yes &gt; Close. Of course, this won't help you now as the vote has ended. [[User:Tra|Tra]] [[User:Tra/MyComments|(Talk)]] 19:46, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

== Cant change template class ==

{{Resolved|1=[[User:Slapsnot|Slapsnot]] ([[User talk:Slapsnot|talk]]) 15:47, 8 May 2009 (UTC)}}
Hi. Iam having difficulties changing the '''Military history WikiProject's''' template on the following page: [[Talk:Angolan War of Independence]]. I did change the ''class variable'' to C, but it keep saying the class is Start. Iam experiencing this problem on other pages also. Please answer me on my talk page. THANK YOU!!! [[User:Slapsnot|Slapsnot]] ([[User talk:Slapsnot|talk]]) 15:37, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

:Reading the documentation for {{tl|WPMILHIST}} will lead you to [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment]]. Here you will find that there is no C class for this template. Lessons to learn: don't expect different templates to work the same and read the documentation when it does not work. ---'''''—&nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]<span style="color:darkblue">&nbsp;</span>'''''<sup>[[User talk:Gadget850|''talk'']]</sup> 15:43, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

::Gadget850 is correct: {{tlx|WPMILHIST}} does not accept the C-Class rating. The broader reason is that the [[WP:MILHIST|WikiProject Military history]] did not adopt the C-Class rating when it was introduced, and the outcome of a !vote on its adoption in March 2009 was "no consensus". — [[User:Bellhalla|Bellhalla]] ([[User talk:Bellhalla|talk]]) 16:08, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Thank you for the advice! Ill look into the Military history assessment. [[User:Slapsnot|Slapsnot]] ([[User talk:Slapsnot|talk]]) 15:44, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

== Can I change my font size using monobook.css? ==

I have trouble reading Wikipedia's very small font size and my browser does not make it any bigger when I zoom in.  Is there a way to use my custom css page to make the font larger?  Thank you! --[[User:Andrew Kelly|Andrew Kelly]] ([[User talk:Andrew Kelly|talk]]) 22:28, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

:Add somthing to [[Special:Mypage/monobook.css]] (assuming monobook) like:
:<syntaxhighlight lang="css">#globalWrapper {font-size: 150%;}</syntaxhighlight>
:Note the default is 127% so anything less than that will actually shrink your text. --[[User:Splarka|Splarka]] ([[User_talk:Splarka|rant]]) 07:48, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

::That doesn't seem to be true as I happen to have mine set to <tt style="white-space:nowrap;">[[User:CharlotteWebb/monobook.css|#bodyContent { font-size:125%; }]]</tt> and it ''does'' enlarge the text. I haven't measured it but I know it's noticeably smaller when I log out so I'm guessing what I see is 125% × 127% = 158.75% of the default size. — [[User talk:CharlotteWebb|CharlotteWebb]] 14:03, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

:::It '''is''' true, the default on '''#globalWrapper''' is already 127%, so changing that font-size to anything smaller than 127% will not increase in growth. But, by changing '''#bodyContent''', you're increasing just the font size of that element rather than overwriting the size declaration of the global div, so it ''does'' multiply, but ''only'' inside that div (and not the whole page, as the original suggestion will do). CSS cascades, but not for multiple percent declarations to the same element. In that case it simply overwrites. --[[User:Splarka|Splarka]] ([[User_talk:Splarka|rant]]) 16:22, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
::::I see what you mean. I must have thought you meant the globalWrapper was inheriting the 127% from somewhere else, I don't know, the &lt;body&gt; tag maybe. — [[User talk:CharlotteWebb|CharlotteWebb]] 17:20, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

<-- Thank you very much, it feels good to be able to read without squinting! --[[User:Andrew Kelly|Andrew Kelly]] ([[User talk:Andrew Kelly|talk]]) 21:08, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

== Filter certain users from Special:Contributions/newbies? ==

Is there a way to filter certain users out of the display for [{{fullurl:Special:Contributions|contribs=newbie}}]? It's a great tool for detecting vandalism and spam from new users but the amount of newbie vandal-fighters' contributions is making it less useful than it could be. [[User:Kimchi.sg|Kimchi.sg]] ([[User talk:Kimchi.sg|talk]]) 02:37, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
:Well, one might argue that the latter group should also be viewed with suspicion. There's no easy way to filter them out. I guess you could create a javascript that hides/removes lines from the page based on whether they match a certain white-list of usernames and/or edit summaries but you'd have to create and maintain this list. And of course if you are viewing 50 edits and hide 12 of them you'll only see 38 rather than an extra 12 from the next page, etc. I'm sure anything like this could be done more cleanly outside the "human" interface sent to normal web browsers. Your best bet might be to see if Huggle, Twinkle, AWB, or similar video-game software has a feature like this, or otherwise request it. — [[User talk:CharlotteWebb|CharlotteWebb]] 14:23, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

== Weird headings ==

On my browser the section headings on [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Christian music/Christian songs]] are coming out in the form
:'''UNIQ2f0e26917e753482-h-0--QINU Scope'''
:'''UNIQ2f0e26917e753482-h-1--QINU Participants'''
etc. but there is no sign of these codes in the wikicode. Can other people see the mess as well, and what is wrong? Cheers, &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 15:21, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Same for me. No idea why. [[User:Peter jackson|Peter jackson]] ([[User talk:Peter jackson|talk]]) 15:38, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
:Same here, tried both purge and null edit, but didn't seem to matter. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 15:39, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
::Caused by categorytree usage on that page. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 15:42, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
:::[[Bugzilla:16744]] --[[User:Splarka|Splarka]] ([[User_talk:Splarka|rant]]) 16:12, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

== IRC PHP code ==

I was writing a short application for a couple Wikipedian IRC users (it will be an RC notice script to keep users quickly informed of edits to their watched pages), but I have a problem in the test bot; it can't write data to the socket. If anyone would like to, I'd be very grateful if you could give us some hints as to what's wrong with the [http://pastie.org/private/gilnljc0lpou0g5osu2awq code.]  I can't apparently I'm "calling a property of a non-object" with the command fwrite( $YamaBot->manager->bot[$yid]['socket'] , $msg . "\r\n" );  I even tried a global variable.  I feel guilty for making a few users wait so long as well, so if you could help me. --[[User:Yamakiri|Yamakiri]] 01:16, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

== Hisense Kelon ==

Is the visible text of [[Hisense Kelon]] manipulated on purpose by sysops to prevent legal difficulties or was it manipulated by somebody else? Please compare the visible text and the text you see when you edit. Obviously the change was made in the interest of [[:de:Gu Chujun|Gu Chujun]]. --[[User:Cethegus|Cethegus]] ([[User talk:Cethegus|talk]]) 05:33, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
:A [{{fullurl:Hisense Kelon|action=purge}} purge] fixed it. --[[User:Splarka|Splarka]] ([[User_talk:Splarka|rant]]) 06:07, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
== Cosmetic changes (Wikitext cleanup options of pywikipediabot) ==

On my [[User talk:MauritsBot|talk page]] someone disagrees about some specific issues involved in the cosmetic changes-script (which is applied when my bot adds interwiki's). Because I am mostly active on nl.wikipedia, I am not sure if there is any policy on these topics on en.wikipedia. Can anyone help me out on this issue? Thanks in advance. Kind regards, --[[User:Maurits|Maurits]] ([[User talk:Maurits|talk]]) 21:59, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
:Just speaking personally, I'm not a fan of extending "WP:" to "Wikipedia:", editors usually choose one or the other for a reason, even in the piped portion. I'm not sure what our current mind on changing Image: to File: when making other edits is. –[[user:xeno|<b style="font-family:verdana; color:black;">xeno</b>]] [[user talk:xeno|<sup style="color:black; font-family:verdana;">talk</sup>]] 22:07, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

In recent days, I examined several changes the [https://fisheye.toolserver.org/browse/pywikipedia/trunk/pywikipedia/cosmetic_changes.py?r=6769 script] can do, I think the following settings are more or less safe to use on en.wikipedia and could probably be recommended for interwiki bots as default settings for English wikipedia:

<syntaxhighlight lang=python>
        text = self.fixSelfInterwiki(text)
        text = self.standardizeInterwiki(text)
        #text = self.standardizeCategories(text)
        text = self.cleanUpLinks(text)
        text = self.standardizeheadernames(text)  # not in script
        text = self.removeunicodecontrols(text)   # not in script
        #text = self.cleanUpSectionHeaders(text)
        # #### text = self.putSpacesInLists(text)                 # already de-activated by default
        text = self.translateAndCapitalizeNamespaces(text)
        #text = self.removeDeprecatedTemplates(text)
        text = self.resolveHtmlEntities(text)
        #text = self.validXhtml(text)
        #text = self.removeUselessSpaces(text)
        #text = self.removeNonBreakingSpaceBeforePercent(text)
        #try:
        #    text = isbn.hyphenateIsbnNumbers(text)
        #except isbn.InvalidIsbnException, error:
        #    pass
</syntaxhighlight>
(updated 01:01, 3 May 2009 (UTC))

It would be nice if there was way to let it apply the general fixes from AWB (see [[Wikipedia talk:AutoWikiBrowser/Archive 19#AWB general fixes module for python|Wikipedia talk:AutoWikiBrowser#AWB general fixes module for python]]). I don't think "translateAndCapitalizeNamespaces" should be a problem in article namespace, as the only one it's likely to be applied is "Category:".  -- User:Docu

:The complaint likely resultd from [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Stub&diff=prev&oldid=287235577 this] edit to the Wikipedia: space. –[[user:xeno|<b style="font-family:verdana; color:black;">xeno</b>]] [[user talk:xeno|<sup style="color:black; font-family:verdana;">talk</sup>]] 00:28, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

::Given that sample, the option is probably more useful for languages with localized namespace names. It should probably be turned off too. -- User:Docu

The changes made are minor and, I agree, for some part quite irrelevant. However, I only apply them to pages when interwiki's are changes. The main problem, I think, was on the file: vs. image: question. From the discussion on [[Wikipedia:ANI#File: vs. Image:]] I conclude that Image: has indeed been deprecated by File: and therefore, the changes were correct.

For some part, I like the "safe version" proposed bij Docu. However, the hyphenation of IBSN-numbers -for example- are useful in my opinion, and that goes fore most options. Because the bot works on various languages, some changes might be less relevant on the en.wikipedia indeed. Switching them off would however switch them off for all languages. Note that the qualification is "more useful" against "less useful" and ''not'' "not useful" or something worse. 
Thanks for your reactions. Kind regards, --[[User:Maurits|Maurits]] ([[User talk:Maurits|talk]]) 15:16, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
:For the namespace part, I think when it was written, shortcuts like "WP:" were redirects and not a [[mw:Manual:$wgNamespaceAliases|$wgNamespaceAliases]]. As for the file/image question, I rather not enter it. Ideally one could just use just the "Capitalize" part. As for the ISBN settings, I'd have to look into it in detail. 
:It shouldn't be too complicated to modify the script that it doesn't apply all settings to all languages (e.g. there is already some code for nl and de). -- User:Docu
I'll check out the possibilities of "nationalization" (although we should be careful in applying it), indeed I noticed some nl-code at the bottom of cosmetic_changes.py. I excluded 'wp' and 'wikipedia' from translateAndCapitalizeNamespaces to solve the actual issue. Kind regards, --[[User:Maurits|Maurits]] ([[User talk:Maurits|talk]]) 17:14, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

My solution didn't work, perhaps someone with better Python skills can help me out. There is already a line that excludes main namespace:

            # skip main (article) namespace
            if thisNs and namespaces:
                text = wikipedia.replaceExcept(text, r'\[\[\s*(' + '|'.join(namespaces) + ') *:(?P<nameAndLabel>.*?)\]\]', r'[[' + thisNs + ':\g<nameAndLabel>]]', exceptions)

(the whole is like this):

    def translateAndCapitalizeNamespaces(self, text):
        """
        Makes sure that localized namespace names are used.
        """
        family = self.site.family
        # wiki links aren't parsed here.
        exceptions = ['nowiki', 'comment', 'math', 'pre']

        for nsNumber in family.namespaces:
            if not family.isDefinedNSLanguage(nsNumber, self.site.lang):
                # Skip undefined namespaces
                continue
            namespaces = list(family.namespace(self.site.lang, nsNumber, all = True))
            thisNs = namespaces.pop(0)

            # skip main (article) namespace
            if thisNs and namespaces:
                text = wikipedia.replaceExcept(text, r'\[\[\s*(' + '|'.join(namespaces) + ') *:(?P<nameAndLabel>.*?)\]\]', r'[[' + thisNs + ':\g<nameAndLabel>]]', exceptions)
        return text

Probably a variant of the main namespace exclusion is needed to exclude wikipedia namespace. I tried to list it as an exception, but the script didn't accept that. Thanks in advance, --[[User:Maurits|Maurits]] ([[User talk:Maurits|talk]]) 17:31, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

:You could <span style="color:green;">change</span> the line above to <code>if thisNs and namespaces <span style="color:green;">and thisNS != "Wikipedia"</span>:</code> in the sample above, but then you still have to deal with the "WT:" pseudo-namespace. At "[[Wikipedia:Namespace#Case_insensitivity]]", I listed a series of titles for the same pages. You can use it to test which ones get normalized to "Wikipedia" ('WP', 'Project', 'wikipedia', 'wP', 'project') and which ones don't. As this isn't ideal, I'd skip the function. -- User:Docu

Thanks for your advice. As there shouldn't be any links to talk pages in articles, I think that this solution will do. If it doesn't, I will skip it when appropriate. Kind regards, --[[User:Maurits|Maurits]] ([[User talk:Maurits|talk]]) 21:39, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

In the same edit,[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Stub&diff=prev&oldid=287235577] cosmetic changes.py also changed Image: to File: in three locations. Using Image: vs. using File: for images is totally personal preference, although I would strongly recommend it, as it emphasizes that it is an image. There are very few situations where File: needs to be used instead of Image:. One is the stats tool http://stats.grok.se/ According to the release notes for MediaWiki 1.14.0, "Image namespace and accompanying talk namespace renamed to File. For backward compatibility purposes, Image still works. External tools may need to be updated." According to [[Wikipedia:Images]], "''The "File:" prefix may be used interchangeably with "Image:":''", so as I see it is is totally personal preference, and should not be changed by a bot, or just to change it. [[Special:Contributions/199.125.109.77|199.125.109.77]] ([[User talk:199.125.109.77|talk]]) 01:41, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
===Problematic edits===
Without trying to read python, these are the edits which in my opinion are problematic. There may be many more. Please add to or comment on each. In general, en:w is not a dictatorship, and unless it is explicitly in a guideline, I do not see that a bot should be making "cosmetic changes". [[Special:Contributions/199.125.109.77|199.125.109.77]] ([[User talk:199.125.109.77|talk]]) 16:19, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

====Expanding WP: to Wikipedia: ====
This is a mapping - it is not even a redirect, and changing for example, [[WP:RS]] to [[Wikipedia:RS]] is not only silly, but counterproductive. [[Special:Contributions/199.125.109.77|199.125.109.77]] ([[User talk:199.125.109.77|talk]]) 16:19, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
*Agreed, on this point. –[[user:xeno|<b style="font-family:verdana; color:black;">xeno</b>]] [[user talk:xeno|<sup style="color:black; font-family:verdana;">talk</sup>]] 16:22, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
*Agree, the current function (written before we had WP: and WT:) doesn't function as it should. -- User:Docu

====Adding a space next to the header = sign====
"Example: ==Section title== becomes == Section title ==
:NOTE: This space is recommended in the syntax help on the English and
:German Wikipedia. It might be that it is not wanted on other wikis.
:If there are any complaints, please file a bug report."[https://fisheye.toolserver.org/browse/pywikipedia/trunk/pywikipedia/cosmetic_changes.py?r=6769]
::And just how does one file a "bug report"? I would amend the above to "This space is recommended on the German Wikipedia only." There is nothing that I am aware of that recommends it on the English WP. [[WP:MOSHEAD]] States "Spaces between the == and the heading text are optional (==H2== versus == H2 ==).", meaning that a bot should not be changing this, although I would have no objection to changing unmatched spacings, such as ==H2 ==. [[Special:Contributions/199.125.109.77|199.125.109.77]] ([[User talk:199.125.109.77|talk]]) 15:11, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

*I think it's an advantage adding this space, I just wouldn't add it to the recommended settings. -- User:Docu
**Agree that if an ''editor'' likes doing them this way it is fine, but a bot? No thanks. [[Special:Contributions/199.125.109.77|199.125.109.77]] ([[User talk:199.125.109.77|talk]])
*It appears this script will no longer run on en.wikipedia (see [[User_talk:MauritsBot#Problematic_edits|bot talk]]). However, while spacing etc is trivial, it ''is'' an issue that some editors care about. Therefore, it is totally inappropriate for a script to impose changes unless supported by '''policy'''. For example, as I understand policy, no script should insert or remove spaces in <tt><nowiki>==Headings==</nowiki></tt> because it's bound to irritate some careful editors. [[User:Johnuniq|Johnuniq]] ([[User talk:Johnuniq|talk]]) 09:07, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

====Changing <nowiki><br> to <br /></nowiki>====
This is wiki markup, not rendered HTML, and if the software wants to pedantically render <nowiki><br> as <br /> have at it, but <br></nowiki> is easier to write and more readable, and does not get split up onto two lines, so I see it simply as personal preference and not something that needs to be corrected by a bot. [[Special:Contributions/199.125.109.77|199.125.109.77]] ([[User talk:199.125.109.77|talk]]) 16:19, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

*I agree. -- User:Docu

:The Wikipedia display is rendered as XHTML (look at the source for any page). {{tag|br |single}} is the proper output. Wikipedia runs all of the output through [[HTML Tidy]], which will, among other things, convert HTML breaks to XHTML breaks. There is no real difference in which you use, as they are all tidied. ---'''''—&nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]<span style="color:darkblue">&nbsp;</span>'''''<sup>[[User talk:Gadget850|''talk'']]</sup> 17:32, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

:: Outside the scope of this question, but Wikipedia output is ''HTML'' rather than XHTML (look at the HTTP headers for any page). The fact that it sends rather oddly formed HTML with an XHTML doctype declaration and <code>PTAGC</code>s that look like <code>ETAGO</code>s is of course our old friend Appendix C rearing its familiar, but still ugly, head again. 8-) It's documented under the W3C's XHTML specification, but if you send it out under <code>text/html</code>, then that's ''HTML'' not XHTML and you're a brave chap to try and parse it with an assumption of XML. <br>'''''Why''''' MediaWiki uses Appendix C rather than HTML 4.01 is a (long-standing) mystery to me. 
:: As to [[user_talk:199.125.109.77|199.125.109.77]]'s original question though, this is wikitext markup, not rendered HTML. ''Either'' is equally correct (they have to be, we'd break very badly otherwise) and so it doesn't, shouldn't and '''mustn't''' matter. In that case, why force <nowiki>&lt;br /&gt;</nowiki>? [[User:Andy Dingley|Andy Dingley]] ([[User talk:Andy Dingley|talk]]) 17:57, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Purposely or accidentally using broken code because Tidy fixes it just makes it harder and adds more dependencies for anyone who isn't us to reuse our content. One of the more frequent complaints in the #mediawiki IRC channel is from people trying to use Wikipedia content in their own wikis (primarily infoboxes and other templates) and having them be horribly broken because they don't have Tidy installed. Using <nowiki><br> over <br /></nowiki> saves 2 keystrokes on something that rarely needs to be used in normal wikitext, so I really don't buy the "easier to type" argument (and the "/" is generally right next to the ">" on a qwerty keyboard; its not like you have to move your fingers all over the place). <span style="font-family:Broadway;">[[User:Mr.Z-man|Mr.]][[User talk:Mr.Z-man|'''''Z-'''man'']]</span> 04:16, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Also, for some of the reasons we don't use an XHTML Content-type, see [[mw:XHTML]], there's probably some more extensive discussions in the wikitech mailing list archives. <span style="font-family:Broadway;">[[User:Mr.Z-man|Mr.]][[User talk:Mr.Z-man|'''''Z-'''man'']]</span> 04:25, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
:::: Why we can't use XHTML as a content-type is obvious to any clueful web developer (and it's IE again). The question is why the impossibility of generally publishing XHTML on the web still causes developers to fake it with Appendix C rather than staying with HTML. In particular, why the general clueful MW people fall for this. [[User:Andy Dingley|Andy Dingley]] ([[User talk:Andy Dingley|talk]]) 14:17, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

====Changing Image: to File:====
If this is an image it should stay as Image, if it is an audio file or video file, feel free to change it, but how would a bot know which it is? [[Special:Contributions/199.125.109.77|199.125.109.77]] ([[User talk:199.125.109.77|talk]]) 16:19, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

*There isn't an advantage in making this change. It shouldn't be a recommended setting. -- User:Docu

====Expanding ISBN numbers with a guessed spacing, such as 0356047113 to 0-356-04711-3====
These are mainly clicked on, and it seems completely pointless to change how an editor entered them. In fact, running them together makes cut and pasting them easier, but I would not object to any editor who preferred using them with the dashes. [[Special:Contributions/199.125.109.77|199.125.109.77]] ([[User talk:199.125.109.77|talk]]) 16:19, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

:The [http://www.isbn-international.org/en/download/2005%20ISBN%20Users%27%20Manual%20International%20Edition.pdf#page=9 ISBN manual] suggests to use hyphens or spaces to make it human readable. As spaces would be a problem, hyphens are clearly the option to choose.  -- User:Docu
::I think that refers to the barcoding itself, or at least how the ISBN should appear in the book itself. I'm not sure that it is a directive to the rest of the uses of ISBNs. I also note that it states that there are always 5 groups, 3 of which are of variable length and I suspect that refers to the newer 13 digit coding. I'm a little curious how the bot thinks it knows that it should be 1-871082-13-7 or 0-02-871380-X. You will note that book sources mechanically takes out all the dashes (or spaces), taking you to[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/002871380X] if you click on ISBN 0 02 871380 X, or ISBN 0-02-871380-X. [[Special:Contributions/199.125.109.77|199.125.109.77]] ([[User talk:199.125.109.77|talk]]) 17:30, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Docu is quite right, the ISBN manual recommends hyphens or spaces, with a readability preference for hyphens.  The positioning of the hyphens/spacing is not 'guessed', but based on simple rules.  [[User:Mr Stephen|Mr Stephen]] ([[User talk:Mr Stephen|talk]]) 20:55, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
::::If a bot sees a hyphenated ISBN, it should leave it alone. Unhyphenated ISBNs should be left alone as well. Conceivably it might be justified to add proper hyphenation to an ISBN that did not yet have it, but it would be a low-priority task (a cosmetic change) and surely not worth a separate edit. [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] ([[User talk:EdJohnston|talk]]) 03:03, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

===Conclusion===
I added a summary to [[Wikipedia:Bot_policy#Restrictions_on_specific_tasks]]. -- User:Docu (May 6, 2009)

== pages whose proper rendering depends upon html-tidy ==

Said Mr. Z-man several sections above:
:''Purposely or accidentally using broken code because Tidy fixes it just makes it harder and adds more dependencies for anyone who isn't us to reuse our content. One of the more frequent complaints in the #mediawiki IRC channel is from people trying to use Wikipedia content in their own wikis (primarily infoboxes and other templates) and having them be horribly broken because they don't have Tidy installed.''
I agree 100%. Would it be easy enough to configure the html-tidy to put wiki-pages with invalid html into a hidden maintenance category (similar to the one which alerts us of ref-tag errors)? Surely it would be better to correct the source (once) rather than correct the final output (at each page-load/edit—of every article using the template and on every wiki they are copied to). — [[User talk:CharlotteWebb|CharlotteWebb]] 17:06, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
:An interesting idea. Of course that would be one hell of a cleanup directory. Also, HTMLtidy does a lot of semi-cosmetic stuff, that we wouldn't want to be marked as "broken". (moving pre and postfix whitespace in span elements outside of the span elements for instance.) —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 00:54, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
::Be sure to note that Tidy [[mw:Manual:%24wgUseTidy#Effects|isn't as necessary as it historically has been]]. --[[User:Splarka|Splarka]] ([[User_talk:Splarka|rant]]) 06:14, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
:::And how incredibly [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Coord/link&diff=prev&oldid=288856138 annoying] it can be... —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 11:59, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
:::By that I guess you mean that some of the features of the html-tidy extension are now handled directly by the MediaWiki software, and that you don't mean wiki users have gotten any better at writing html [[Image:Smiley.svg|15px|]]. Still I think the principle of writing good code for its own sake would apply regardless of the exact mechanism by which bad code is repaired. So when I say html-tidy I'm referring more broadly to any part of the software that makes broken code less broken. — [[User talk:CharlotteWebb|CharlotteWebb]] 22:48, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes, the non-cosmetic changes are what I was referring to—cases where it has to add, remove, escape, or change the order of tags on the basis that the previous code was clearly no-good. I don't know how well html-tidy differentiates between these steps and ones which only change white-space, but it should. — [[User talk:CharlotteWebb|CharlotteWebb]] 12:28, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

== What links here Page ==

For the What links here pages, you get filters, but one thing is missing: Show only redirects, Show only transclusions, and Show only links.  Please post this to bugzilla; I don't have an account, thanks.[[Special:Contributions/68.148.149.184|68.148.149.184]] ([[User talk:68.148.149.184|talk]]) 09:43, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
:{{phab|20729}} [[User:Happy-melon|<b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b>]] 11:18, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

== Page not appearing in category ==

I've recently edited a few templates to use the [[Template:doc|documentation]] subpage feature ([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Future_amusement_ride&diff=288698082&oldid=253942862 example]), which meant that I also moved the category, [[:Category:Temporal templates]], from the template page to [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Future_amusement_ride/doc&oldid=288698133 its subpage]. The category is appearing correctly at [[Template:Future amusement ride]], but the template has disappeared from [[:Category:Temporal templates]]. Did I do something wrong, or does the wiki just need to catch up? --[[User:Conti|Conti]]|[[User talk:Conti|✉]] 11:37, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
:It appears now, after a [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Future_amusement_ride&action=edit null edit of the template] and a [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Temporal_templates&action=purge purge of the category page] (in that order). — [[User talk:CharlotteWebb|CharlotteWebb]] 12:50, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
::Awesome. Thanks! --[[User:Conti|Conti]]|[[User talk:Conti|✉]] 13:00, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
== Apparent problem ==

I noticed that the following wikitext:
<pre><span style="display:none">
*abc
*def
#123
#456
</span>
</pre>

renders as:
<!-- high-priority Linter error caused by the original invalid code:
<span style="display:none">
*abc
*def
#123
#456
</span>
replaced with the output copied from below-->
<ul>
<li><span style="display:none">abc</span></li>
<li><span style="display:none">def</span></li>
</ul>
<ol>
<li><span style="display:none">123</span></li>
<li><span style="display:none">456</span></li>
</ol>

The generated HTML is:
<pre>
<ul>
<li><span style="display:none">abc</span></li>
<li><span style="display:none">def</span></li>
</ul>
<ol>
<li><span style="display:none">123</span></li>
<li><span style="display:none">456</span></li>
</ol>
</pre>

-- [[User:Wtmitchell|Boracay Bill]] ([[User talk:Wtmitchell|talk]]) 02:33, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

:Looks like htmlTidy assumes you can't possibly want to put list elements inside a span, which seems reasonable enough. You'll want to use a div tag instead. What's this for? — [[User talk:CharlotteWebb|CharlotteWebb]] 02:54, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
<div style="display:none">
*abc
*def
#123
#456
</div>

::Yes, this is tidy being tidy. Try <code><nowiki><span class="foo"><pre>bar</pre></span></nowiki></code> and you'll get <code><nowiki><pre><span class="foo">bar</span></pre></nowiki></code>. --[[User:Splarka|Splarka]] ([[User_talk:Splarka|rant]]) 07:51, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
:::I guess that means don't ever try to put a block element inside an inline element? — [[User talk:CharlotteWebb|CharlotteWebb]] 14:07, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
::::Yes, it's invalid HTML. [[User:Happy-melon|<b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b>]] 15:47, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the info and the fix. The observation grew out of [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension_talk:Cite/Cite.php#Cite_body.php_modified_to_allow_ref_bodies_to_be_declared_outside_of_article_prose this], which I'll change to use a DIV instead of a SPAN. -- [[User:Wtmitchell|Boracay Bill]] ([[User talk:Wtmitchell|talk]]) 03:30, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

== Filter recent changes ==

A question: Is it possible to filter the recent changes list to display changes by a particular user, or more specifically, IP addresses beginning in a certain number? I have a dynamic IP-vandal who keeps inserting false information into football-related articles, so I'd like to be able to bring up the recent changes made by IPs beginning 91.109. I has a little play with related changes, but couldn't make it do what I wanted. Any ideas? –  <span style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC; font-size:15px;">'''[[User:Toon05|Toon]][[User talk:Toon05|<span style="color:blue"><sup>(talk)</sup></span>]]'''</span> 15:40, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
:There isn't a way to do that on recent changes, but there is a gadget that allows you to search for contributions based on an IP range.  Enable the "Allow /16 and /24 – /32 CIDR ranges on Special:Contributions forms" under the User Interface Gadgets section of your preferences. [[User:Nakon|<span style="color:#CC5500;">'''Nakon'''</span>]] 16:05, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
::Ah fantastic! Thanks! –  <span style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC; font-size:15px;">'''[[User:Toon05|Toon]][[User talk:Toon05|<span style="color:blue"><sup>(talk)</sup></span>]]'''</span> 16:12, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
:OK, this brigns up another issue: is there a way to set a date to display contibs ''after''? E.g. display contributions for May 2009? The field at the moment is limited to year (and earlier) and month (and earlier), which brings up '''a lot''' of contribs for 91.109.*. –  <span style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC; font-size:15px;">'''[[User:Toon05|Toon]][[User talk:Toon05|<span style="color:blue"><sup>(talk)</sup></span>]]'''</span> 16:32, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
::I would just view the page without a date filter and then ignore anything after X date. [[User:Nakon|<span style="color:#CC5500;">'''Nakon'''</span>]] 16:34, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Yeah, but the problem here is that I get a list with hundreds of IPs, most of which wouldn't appear if there was a filtered date as they haven't edited in May 2009. Also the IPs aren't sorted by the date of their contribs, but numerically by IP. This means that not only does my browser wheeze for a while, but I have to go through each IP looking for ones which have edited recently. –  <span style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC; font-size:15px;">'''[[User:Toon05|Toon]][[User talk:Toon05|<span style="color:blue"><sup>(talk)</sup></span>]]'''</span> 16:40, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
::::The limitation is in what the API is able to output. It is horribly inefficient to query multiple usernames or a prefixindex of users sorted by date, so it returns the data sorted by user and then sorted by date. I could have had the gadget sort by date after in-browser, but this would make your browser quite a helluvalot ''more'' prone to wheeze.
::::What could be done is to give a very narrow date range, eg: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=usercontribs&uclimit=max&ucuserprefix=91.109.&ucend=20090506235959&ucstart=20090509235959 &ucend=20090506235959&ucstart=20090509235959] (3 days). This is beyond the scope of the gadget as it (for simplicity) just uses the existing User Contribs UI, but you could fork the gadget to support this as a personal userscript. It would be easy to just have two input boxes for timestamps as those above, though a more complex one could have interactive date selectors (ew). --[[User:Splarka|Splarka]] ([[User_talk:Splarka|rant]]) 07:43, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::That sounds useful... but I have no knowledge of writing scripts or code or such sorcery. I am limited to simply appreciating and wishing for such things, unfortunately! –  <span style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC; font-size:15px;">'''[[User:Toon05|Toon]][[User talk:Toon05|<span style="color:blue"><sup>(talk)</sup></span>]]'''</span> 22:39, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

== Drop-down menus ==

I know that there is the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject User scripts/Scripts/Add LI menu|Add LI menu]] script, but I'd like to take it a step further (which I've tried but failed to do):  Add tree-like maneuverability, where one can hover over an item on the list and another list of items appears out to the side, similar in function to [http://sandbox.leigeber.com/dropdown-menu/index.html this].  Plenty of other Web sites use this configuration, but I can never disentangle the code and make something of my own.  So can a friendly JavaScript coder offer me a hand? [[Image:Face-smile.svg|25px]] —[[User:Animum|<b style="color:#002BB8">Animum</b>]] <small>([[User_talk:Animum|''talk'']])</small> 01:44, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
:Have you seen the "Add page and user options to drop-down menus on the toolbar" gadget? It takes some of the interface options and moves them to drop-down menus on the tab bar, including sub-menus as you've described. The code may help with what you want to do. (The creator's page is at [[User:Haza-w/Drop-down  menus]]. --'''[[User:Ckatz|Ckatz]]'''''<small>[[User_talk:Ckatz|<sup style="color:green;">chat</sup>]][[Special:Contributions/Ckatz|<sub style="color:red;">spy</sub>]]</small>'' 09:51, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

== 169:1 ratio of page download vs. content size ==

I conducted a little test that might interest you: [http://kozuch.wordpress.com/2009/05/10/wikipedias-pages-too-big-for-africa/ Wikipedia’s pages too big for Africa?] Regards--[[User:Kozuch|Kozuch]] ([[User talk:Kozuch|talk]]) 10:47, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

:This is also being worked on. See [http://techblog.wikimedia.org/2009/04/skin-js-cleanup-and-jquery/ blogpost] and [[MediaWiki_talk:Common.js#Big_changes_coming_to_JS_core]]. Recently JS/CSS compression was enabled, bringing the size of wikibits.js from 30KB to 9 KB. The upcoming scriptloader system will minify the CSS and JS, further reducing the size of the downloads. 
:Also, lets not forget that normally, all JS and CSS is cached in the browser, and is in shared use for all our 16.7 million pages that we have on en.wikipedia, thus significantly reducing total traffic and the size of our pages in general. The idea is definitely, to keep our HTML as simple and as it can be, with as much accessibility as possible, and concentrating any CSS and JS into specific centralized pages that can be cached and well maintained. Also scripting is now starting to become more and more conditional, with editpage and watchlist JS being loaded only on those specific pages. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 12:21, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

:169:1 is a little misleading. That's for a page with no content. Except for a few special pages, the size of the JS/CSS is going to be a constant for all pages, so the ratio will not stay the same. <span style="font-family:Broadway;">[[User:Mr.Z-man|Mr.]][[User talk:Mr.Z-man|'''''Z-'''man'']]</span> 19:46, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

::"''The upcoming scriptloader system will minify the CSS and JS''" -> The developers have repeatedly stated that skin/site/user JS will '''not''' be minified: [[bugzilla:12250#c2]] [[bugzilla:12250#c6]]. In that techblog post, Brion refers to the jQuery being minified as it is foreign code and is supplied that way already. This was clarified in [http://toolserver.org/~amidaniel/chanlogs/%23mediawiki/20090415.txt irc]. Note that minifcation removing all linefeeds affects usability and even drastically slows js parsing in some browsers. --[[User:Splarka|Splarka]] ([[User_talk:Splarka|rant]]) 19:57, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Thanks for the clarification Splarka —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 22:32, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

== redirect=no ==

I was trying to set a template to suppress a redirect by automatically adding "'''redirect=no'''" after the URL. I know it doesn't redirect with the RfD tag on it, but after it is closed as "keep", the redirect creates confusion. See <span class="plainlinks">[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Rfd2&diff=prev&oldid=289079483 this edit]</span>. It was reverted because I apparently didn't code it correctly. I am requesting that someone remake the edit, however, in a way where it works correctly. Hopefully, what I was intending to to is obvious from looking at the code. -- [[User:IRP|IRP]] [[User talk: IRP|☎]] 18:02, 10 May 2009 (UTC), modified -- [[User:IRP|IRP]] [[User talk: IRP|☎]] 18:07, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

:Personally I think I putting a mess of templates and parser functions inside the section heading creates more confusion. I suggest you just use something like {{tl|noredirect}} and put it on the next line, outside the section heading. — [[User talk:CharlotteWebb|CharlotteWebb]] 18:35, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
:I've given it a slight overhaul. — [[User talk:CharlotteWebb|CharlotteWebb]] 18:49, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

== ordered list offset ==

This may be the first time I had any success with the bugzilla search engine, but I was able to find this [[:bugzilla:4281|bug 4281]] from several years ago. It has to do with being able to start an ordered list from a number other than "1" using pure wiki-text.

This seems to be stalemated on the basis that there are two ways to do this, but the start/value attributes are "deprecated by W3C" and there is some arcane way to do it with css but it isn't accepted by most browsers (as of 2005). Not sure whether either of these things have changed since then, but assuming they haven't, which of them would we rather ignore? — [[User talk:CharlotteWebb|CharlotteWebb]] 18:23, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
:HTML 5.0 is "undeprecating" this option [http://www.w3schools.com/tags/html5_ol.asp] So I think that the main concern here should no longer be a problem —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 18:37, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Okay, so I guess we'd want to decide what the best syntax would be. Perhaps we can make the value tag work like this:
<pre>
# value="5" | Five
# Six
# Seven
# value="20" | Twenty
</pre>
That would at least be similar to what's used for wiki-tables. Not sure what would be best for the "ol" element because there is nothing in the wiki-text directly corresponding to it. Maybe we can make it optional to explicitly use it as a wrapper for the wikitext list (?!):
<pre>
<ol start="5">
#Five
#Six
</ol>
</pre>
Of course if we're going clearly define where the list begins and ends, we no longer have to rely on the lack of blank lines. For example this should be ok:
<pre>
<ol start="5">
#Five
#Six
#Seven

#Eight (not 1 or 5 mind you)
#Nine
</ol>
</pre>
This usually happens more with unordered "bullet" lists and I fix them because having several lists with one item each is bad html, but people usually revert it because they like having more space and they don't understand the difference. If we could let something like this render as one continuous list I wouldn't have to fight them so much:
<pre>
== References ==

<ul>
*{{cite book | last = Doe | etc. etc. }}

*{{cite web | url = http://etc.etc/etc.etc?etc=etc | etc.}}

*{{cite news | work = USA Today | etc. }}
</ul>
</pre>
Thoughts? — [[User talk:CharlotteWebb|CharlotteWebb]] 19:07, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

:Increasing the density of HTML in wikimarkup is a Bad Idea in general; it shouldn't be made the norm.  If the first example you suggest was implemented, there wouldn't be any need to use the explicit ol tag, would there?  [[User:Happy-melon|<b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b>]] 19:16, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
::No, only if somebody is looking for a place to put the "start" attribute (I realize that might not be needed if you can just put a "value" attribute on the first item, however that might not always be feasible if all this is assembled from separate pieces i.e. complex templates). Can you think of a better way? — [[User talk:CharlotteWebb|CharlotteWebb]] 19:27, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
::I'm not saying the extra tag should be the norm, only that it might be a good idea to make it optional as something would need to exist in order to apply attributes to the list as a whole rather than to single lines. — [[User talk:CharlotteWebb|CharlotteWebb]] 19:29, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

== Firefox crashes while searching for a specific word ==

I'm using Ubuntu 9.04, Firefox 3.0.10. If I enter 'trans' into the search bar to the left and click "Search" Firefox crashes, but doesn't if I click "Go". Can anyone else replicate this? <span style='font-family:monospace,tahoma;font-size:90%;'>~ [[User:Ameliorate!|<span style='color:green;'>Ameliorate</span>]][[User talk:Ameliorate!|!]]</span> 03:02, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:Works fine for me, using Firefox 3.0.10 on Ubuntu 8.04.-[[User talk:gadfium|<span style="font-family:cursive; color:#808080;">gadfium</span>]] 06:06, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
== Green type ==

What's with the green type at [[Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#Longer_periods]]? [[User:GeorgeLouis|GeorgeLouis]] ([[User talk:GeorgeLouis|talk]]) 00:31, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
:{{tl|xt}} and {{tl|xt2}}. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 00:52, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, but those two pages don't seem to explain why and where the green type is used. Or maybe I missed it. Yours in puzzlement, [[User:GeorgeLouis|GeorgeLouis]] ([[User talk:GeorgeLouis|talk]]) 19:51, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
::It seems someone decided that green was a good indicator of quotations. Feel free to make it more normal, or indeed visible. [[User:OrangeDog|OrangeDog]] <small>([[User talk:OrangeDog|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/OrangeDog|edits]])</small> 17:03, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

== Changing map in location template ==

[[File:Sweden Gotland location map modified.svg|thumb|Gotland]]
The article [[Romakloster]], on a small settlement on [[Gotland]], looks terrible. It started out with only the national map, which takes up a lot of space on the page and still does not show the location of this small place with any precision. The red "pinhead" covers a territory equivalent to a medium-sized metropolitan area to mark the position of a place with a few hundred people. I changed it to the Gotland map, and another user restored the Sweden map along with the Gotland map. So this short article on a tiny place now has two huge maps to show where it is.

I asked [[:de:Benutzer:Erik Frohne|Erik Frohne]] over at the German Wikipedia, who has uploaded the location maps for Swedish counties, if one could make a modified location map that has a small map of Sweden in the corner, thus avoiding the perceived need for a large map of the country in the infobox. He made one (seen here to the right).

The problem is that still I can't figure out how to make this work with the [[Template:Location map Sweden Gotland]] and the infobox in the article. Changing the name of the image file in the template code to point to the modified image (the one seen here) seems to make no difference; it still shows the other image. Why? Where is one supposed to make the needed changes to get it into the article page? --[[User:Hegvald|Hegvald]] ([[User talk:Hegvald|talk]]) 20:39, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

:You should see the change once saved (and purged). Note you will not see the change in the preview as it uses {{tl|Location map/Info}} to display the template itself. I also have to say that this image uses way too much detail for the corner image, which are subsequently lost in the infobox; the SVG spans 2.8 MB against the original 63 KB, I wouldn't recommend using it. <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — [[User:Edokter|<span style="color: #008;"><b><i>E</i>dokter</b></span>]] • [[User_talk:Edokter|<span style="color: #080;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 21:23, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

::OK, thanks. I only previewed and did not try to save it. I assume the size can be reduced in some way? --[[User:Hegvald|Hegvald]] ([[User talk:Hegvald|talk]]) 21:48, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

::The SVG is 2.8 MB, true, but the rendered PNG image, which is what is actually downloaded, is only 20 KB. The file size of the SVG itself isn't important—that only matters to people who are going to download the SVG source. —[[User:Bkell|Bkell]] ([[User talk:Bkell|talk]]) 05:11, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

[[File:Template-Location map Sweden Gotland with small map screenshot.png|thumb|Screenshot]]
I made a new template, [[Template:Location map Sweden Gotland with small map]], but I still couldn't get the map to show, despite purging. Image to the right shows what it looked like on my screen. I then moved the template to [[Template:Location map Sweden Gotland modified]] and used a renamed version of the map ([[:image:Sweden Gotland modified location map.svg]]), in order to get the image name and template name to correspond exactly the way they did before (I wasn't sure if it mattered, but thought it worth a try). It still does not seem to work. What's wrong? --[[User:Hegvald|Hegvald]] ([[User talk:Hegvald|talk]]) 06:29, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:I also don't know, what went wrong with your changes. After some testing with your modified template, I made a copy of Romakloster [[User:Erik_Frohne/Test|here]] using the new template. Seems to work fine ... --[[User:Erik Frohne|Erik Frohne]] ([[User talk:Erik Frohne|talk]]) 09:46, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

::Funny... when I now "walk" backwards in the history of [[Template:Location map Sweden Gotland modified]], even the earliest version looks good. Apparently, some patience is all that is needed. I purged the ''page'' before, but have shut down and restarted my browser completely since then; that may have had some effect. Thanks for all the help! --[[User:Hegvald|Hegvald]] ([[User talk:Hegvald|talk]]) 10:24, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Attention: The history of the template looks good, because the ''current'' template version is evaluated and inserted by {{tl|Location map/Info}}. Thus any historic version of a location map contains the actual location map. As I told before, I don't know what went wrong and you may discover the same effect on the next template you are creating. Yours, --- [[User:Erik Frohne|Erik Frohne]] ([[User talk:Erik Frohne|talk]]) 12:38, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

== Interwiki links ==

Is there a way to get a list of direct (without a template) interwiki links? --[[User talk:NE2|NE2]] 19:42, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:Of an article ? Or do you want all the interwiki prefixes ? —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 20:01, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::Something like [[Special:linksearch]]. --[[User talk:NE2|NE2]] 20:15, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
== Interwiki Transclusion ==

This is one that I have been trying, without luck, to figure out for a while.  How can one transclude (in this case their User page) to other wiki sites?  I have a global account, and I am active on several of the other sites off and on.  I would love to just have my Wikipedia User page ported to the other sites so that when someone clicks my name, they can see some info about me.  At the moment, I just have redirects that don't auto-redirect on there.  Any ideas?  Pages in question are [[User:Tigey]] and [[v:User:Tigey]]. [[User:Tigey|Tigey]] ([[User talk:Tigey|talk]]) 14:53, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
:Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure your only option is to copy/paste every now and a gain...--[[User:Unionhawk|Unionhawk]] <sup>[[User talk:Unionhawk|Talk]]</sup> 14:59, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

::We just had this discussion fairly recently: you can't do it. ---'''''—&nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]<span style="color:darkblue">&nbsp;</span>'''''<sup>[[User talk:Gadget850|''talk'']]</sup> 15:27, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Very well.  Not a real problem.  I would imagine that it could be a security/bandwidth problem if it were implemented. Thanks, guys.  [[User:Tigey|Tigey]] ([[User talk:Tigey|talk]]) 16:50, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

== Secure server ==

I use the secure server (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki) to access Wikipedia.  It is annoying that interwiki links and user-created diff links go to the normal server, effectively logging me out and making SUL useless.  Are there any scripts/other such technical solutions that will do URL rewriting to fix this?

Thanks!

[[User:Sam Korn|<nowiki>[[Sam Korn]]</nowiki>]] <sup>[[User talk:Sam Korn|(smoddy)]]</sup> 19:03, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

:[[User:Anakin101/alwayssecurewikipedia.js]] might work for you. (does not fix all interwikilinks though...) —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 19:13, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
::Wonderful.  [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=User:Sam_Korn/monobook.js&diff=289529168&oldid=193618806 Some small changes] mean I've got most of the projects.  Thanks!  [[User:Sam Korn|<nowiki>[[Sam Korn]]</nowiki>]] <sup>[[User talk:Sam Korn|(smoddy)]]</sup> 19:40, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
== Slow Server ==

{{Resolved|1=Looks like the server's cleared up. [[User:The Earwig|<span style="color:#008800">The</span> <span style="color:#004400">Earwig</span>]] <span style="font-family:Verdana"><sup>([[User_talk:The Earwig|Talk]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/The Earwig|Contributions]])</sup></span>}}
Hopefully it will be fixed quickly - but has anyone else noticed the drag in the servers in the last hour or so? '''[[User talk:Athanasius1|Athanasius]] • ''[[User:Athanasius1/Credo|Quicumque vult]]'' ''' 21:40, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

:I've got around 1400 seconds of lag going. I noticed a considerable slowdown two days ago, with lag notices popping up every other time I checked my watchlist. Maintenance maybe? -- <span style="font-family:Corbel">[[User:Commdor|<span style="color:DarkSlateGray"><b>Commdor  </b></span>]][[User talk:Commdor|<span style="color:Navy">{<small><b><i>Talk</i></b></small>}</span>]]</span> 21:49, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

::Same trouble here. It's stopping my [[User:EarwigBot II|bot]] from working; and it's driving me nuts! [[User:The Earwig|<span style="color:#008800">The</span> <span style="color:#004400">Earwig</span>]] <span style="font-family:Verdana"><sup>([[User_talk:The Earwig|Talk]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/The Earwig|Contributions]])</sup></span> 21:54, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
:I have over 1500 seconds of server lag. There's been lag for the last several hours but it's got bigger over the course of the day. I suspect it's something like maintenance as well. [[User:Acalamari|Acalamari]] 21:57, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
::Me too - [[User:Pointillist|Pointillist]] ([[User talk:Pointillist|talk]]) 22:23, 11 May 2009 (UTC) <br/>[[Image:en wikipedia server lag 2009-05-11 230x.png]]<br/>
:::I heard something big got deleted. [[User talk:MuZemike|MuZemike]] 22:58, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

The database server that houses the en.wp watchlists, is being dumped. Nothing to worry about, when the datadump is done, performance will be normal. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 23:00, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

:That's weird. I must be missing something, because [http://download.wikimedia.org/backup-index.html download.wikimedia.org] says that an en.wiki dump is in progress, but look at the feed:
<pre>
2009-05-11 22:31:35 enwiki: Dump in progress
2009-05-06 11:14:55 in-progress Extracted page abstracts for Yahoo
2009-05-11 22:31:35: enwiki 14360998 pages (30.387/sec), 14361000 revs (30.387/sec), ETA 2009-05-15 02:46:38 [max 22702415]
abstract.xml
</pre>
:Huh? It's been going on for the last five days and is expected to go on for another four? That can't be right... [[User:The Earwig|<span style="color:#008800">The</span> <span style="color:#004400">Earwig</span>]] <span style="font-family:Verdana"><sup>([[User_talk:The Earwig|Talk]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/The Earwig|Contributions]])</sup></span> 23:28, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

It seems better now. [[User:The Earwig|<span style="color:#008800">The</span> <span style="color:#004400">Earwig</span>]] <span style="font-family:Verdana"><sup>([[User_talk:The Earwig|Talk]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/The Earwig|Contributions]])</sup></span> 00:22, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Still lag, seems like the ETA of 2009-05-15 is probably correct. --[[User:Saddhiyama|Saddhiyama]] ([[User talk:Saddhiyama|talk]]) 09:34, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
:So we have three more days of completely disruptive lags that are frankly bad looking for the project for what exactly? - <small style="border:1px solid #990000;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#990000;background:#FFFFFF;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User_talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#000000;background:#FFFFFF;">Talk</span>]] • 14:26, 13 May 2009 (UTC)</small>
::Most of our readers won't even notice, as they don't keep watchlists. –[[user:xeno|<b style="font-family:verdana; color:black;">xeno</b>]] [[user talk:xeno|<sup style="color:black; font-family:verdana;">talk</sup>]] 14:30, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
:::At the worst period yesterday it could hardly load the articles (I got several Wikimedia time-out messages). Some kind of general announcement before and during this would have been nice though. I even searched Wikimedia but couldnt find anything. --[[User:Saddhiyama|Saddhiyama]] ([[User talk:Saddhiyama|talk]]) 14:52, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
::::This should be done during overnight hours so it does not disturb editing. - <small style="border:1px solid #990000;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#990000;background:#FFFFFF;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User_talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#000000;background:#FFFFFF;">Talk</span>]] • 15:02, 13 May 2009 (UTC)</small>
:::::Lol, whose overnight hours? My overnight hours? Your overnight hours? Australia's overnight hours? The nature of the project makes it unfeasable, and restricting it to a few hours a day would just inconvenience a certain portion of editors for much longer. –  <span style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC; font-size:15px;">'''[[User:Toon05|Toon]][[User talk:Toon05|<span style="color:blue"><sup>(talk)</sup></span>]]'''</span> 15:08, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
::::::''This should be done during overnight hours so it does not disturb editing.''
::::::Oh dear. [[User:Antivenin|<span style= "color: #000000">A</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Antivenin|<span style= "color: #4863A0">v</span>]][[User talk:Antivenin|<span style="color: #000000">N</span>]] 15:14, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::::OK, time of least disruption.  That would be around 2 to 5 am EST.  I have found that few edits are made during those periods.  Either way, something needs to be done because at the present point some people are having much trouble editing, edits aren't going through (personal experience included there) and other problems are arising from this server lag....plus it just looks bad on the project. - <small style="border:1px solid #990000;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#990000;background:#FFFFFF;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User_talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#000000;background:#FFFFFF;">Talk</span>]] • 15:16, 13 May 2009 (UTC)</small>
::::::::That would be "do it at noon in in Europe and Africa, and mid evening in Asia and Australasia, because people outside America don't matter", I take it?&nbsp;–&nbsp;[[user:iridescent|<span style="background: #E45E05; color: #C1118C;"><span style="font-family:Trebuchet;">&nbsp;''iridescent''&nbsp;</span></span>]] 15:25, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::::::Never said that.  From what I have seen on Recent Changes, the least amount of edits happen during that time period.  That's the best I can come up with so that this problem doesn't upset anyone.  Someone is going to be upset, but if we can upset just a few, it would better than half shutting down the site with lags. - <small style="border:1px solid #990000;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#990000;background:#FFFFFF;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User_talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#000000;background:#FFFFFF;">Talk</span>]] • 15:44, 13 May 2009 (UTC)</small>
::::::::::I take it, NeutralHomer, that you're American. [[User:Antivenin|<span style= "color: #000000">A</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Antivenin|<span style= "color: #4863A0">v</span>]][[User talk:Antivenin|<span style="color: #000000">N</span>]] 16:22, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
(unindent) Yes, I am. - <small style="border:1px solid #990000;padding:1px;">[[User:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#990000;background:#FFFFFF;">NeutralHomer</span>]] • [[User_talk:Neutralhomer|<span style="color:#000000;background:#FFFFFF;">Talk</span>]] • 16:23, 13 May 2009 (UTC)</small>
:I thought so. Maybe we should sacrifice the connectivity of '''one''' country so the '''rest of the world''' can connect without lag? If you're a RC patroller, you'll know that most of the vandalism takes place during the day (EST). [[User:Antivenin|<span style= "color: #000000">A</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Antivenin|<span style= "color: #4863A0">v</span>]][[User talk:Antivenin|<span style="color: #000000">N</span>]] 16:31, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

::Less editing happens on this project from something like 500-800 UTC. That's a fact. I'm sorry you see it as nationalism. [[User:Cool Hand Luke|Cool Hand]] ''[[User talk:Cool Hand Luke|Luke]]'' 18:12, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

The lag level measures the extent to which the slave database servers have fallen behind the master.  The s1 cluster, which houses only enwiki, has one database master and five slaves.  Most read operations (reading and loading pages, compiling special pages, etc) are done on one of the slaves, which are read-only, while ''all'' write actions are done on the master.  The slaves are continuously synchronised with the master but, if the rate of write actions to the master is high, they may not be able to keep up.  Since your watchlist is loaded from one of the slaves, it may not reflect changes that were made to the master more recently than the slave was synced; hence the need for the message to inform you.  But the extent of the database lag shouldn't affect, for instance, the speed of loading pages (although slow loading and high lag may ''share'' a common cause).<p>The dump process is always a high-load operation, which has consistently failed in the past: dumping the 'big three' (enwiki, dewiki, frwiki), enwiki in particular, is a ''huge'' operation.  There's not a whole lot of point in identifying the least active part of enwiki's day when the dump process routinely runs for a fortnight, when it runs at all.  </p><p>Brion has [http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2009-May/043091.html said] that the dump load on the watchlist server has been removed, so any further lag is probably unrelated. [[User:Happy-melon|<b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b>]] 20:03, 13 May 2009 (UTC)</p>

== Number of pages in a category... ==

...is supposed to be shown in a standard message on the category page ("The following abc pages are in this category, out of xyz total.") However, this "xyz" figure is not always correct, i.e. if you browse the category in question page by page, the total number of entries shown (i.e. 200+200+...+number of entries on the last page) is not equal to xyz. E.g. [[:Category:Mid-importance Croatia articles]] is stuck with one article missing, and it's been that way for at least ''a couple of weeks''. Is there a way for it to get "unstuck"? Of course, dummy edit to a particular page would do the trick, but how to ''find'' that exact page? [[User:GregorB|GregorB]] ([[User talk:GregorB|talk]]) 19:31, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
:Probably the same thing as in [[Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 59#Categories reporting wrong number of members|/Archive 59#Categories reporting wrong number of members]]. — [[user:Alex Smotrov|AlexSm]] 21:09, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
::That's it, thanks! The pages were probably deleted at some point, and while this is mildly annoying, it seems that there is nothing one can do about it at the moment. Hopefully it will get fixed one day. [[User:GregorB|GregorB]] ([[User talk:GregorB|talk]]) 21:34, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
Adjust your template to populate a different category, and then change it back again. This should add the contents to the job queue which will flush them out. That's what I did and it seemed to work. &mdash;&nbsp;Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 12:00, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

== double escaped pipe? ==

I am working on a template, and I need to know how to do a double-escaped |

Here is the actual text:

<nowiki>|<center>{{#tag:imagemap|
Image:Wikiquote-logo.svg{{!}}30x35px</nowiki>

This is what I get after I wrap it in an if:

<nowiki>{{#if: {{{news|}}} | {{!}}<center>{{#tag:imagemap{{!}}
Image:Wikiquote-logo.svg{{!}}30x35px</nowiki>

The problem is, the second ! was already escaped the first time around, so now I need to double-escape it.  Possible? [[User talk:-Zeus-|-Zeus-]]<sup>[[User:-Zeus-|u]]|[[Special:Contributions/-Zeus-|c]]</sup> 01:07, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
:I don't fully understand; that code has unbalanced braces that will screw up most things.  Can you give a larger code snip (or just the template you're working on)?? [[User:Happy-melon|<b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b>]] 14:56, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
::Original (this is inside a <nowiki>{|</nowiki>:
:::<nowiki>|<center>{{#tag:imagemap|
Image:Wikibooks-logo.svg</nowiki><span style="color:red;"><nowiki>{{!}}</nowiki></span><nowiki>30x35px
default [{{fullurl:Wikibooks:{{{page|{{PAGENAME}}}}}}}]
desc none
}}</center></nowiki>

What I need:
:::<nowiki>{{#if: {{{books|}}} | {{!}}<center>{{#tag:imagemap{{!}}
Image:Wikibooks-logo.svg{{!}}30x35px
default [{{fullurl:Wikibooks:{{{page{{!}}{{PAGENAME}}}}}}}]
desc none
}}</center>}}</nowiki>

As you can see, I have no idea what to with that <nowiki>{{!}}</nowiki> present in the first case.  I have to convert all of the |s to <nowiki>{{!}}</nowiki> to make the if work, but I don't know what to do with the one that is already <nowiki>{{!}}</nowiki>. [[User talk:-Zeus-|-Zeus-]]<sup>[[User:-Zeus-|u]]|[[Special:Contributions/-Zeus-|c]]</sup> 18:26, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

: If I understand correctly, you want to place an image inside a table, and the image should link somewhere, and the whole thing conditionally.<br>You don't need an imagemap for that, and can do with a fair bit less escaping. The following will work just as well:
<pre>
{{#if: {{{books|}}} | {{!}}<center>[[File:Wikibooks-logo.svg|30x35px|link=:b:{{{page|{{PAGENAME}}}}}]]</center>}}
</pre>
:[[User talk:Amalthea|<span style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant:small-caps;color:#823824;font-weight:normal">Amalthea</span>]] 18:46, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

== Toolserver requests ==

When I go to my Watchlist there is a request made to http://toolserver.org/~para/geoip.fcgi that seems to be timing out.  It take something like 20 seconds for this to happen. It looks like it might be something for detecting the geographic location of my computer's IP address. Perhaps someone could investigate or turn it off until the problem is fixed?   [[User:Barrylb|Barrylb]] ([[User talk:Barrylb|talk]]) 06:53, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
:Works for me. It is not uncommon that some of our services are offline at times. The internet breaks :D (And it indeed determines your location based on IP. Then if you are in a certain zone, you will get invitations for local Wikipedia/MediaWiki events for instance. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 11:04, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
::It does seem to be working now. If there is anything we could do to avoid the timeouts when services are offline it would be nice... frustratingly slow otherwise. [[User:Barrylb|Barrylb]] ([[User talk:Barrylb|talk]]) 11:44, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

== Looking for a value colorizarion template ==

Hi,

I'm looking for a template that takes a value and outputs a color (green, yellow, red) depending on that value (and other parameters). The idea is to color a table background depending on the number of pages in a category (the kind of stuff [[User:Dragons flight/Category tracker/Summary]] did). I'm pretty sure someone created something like that before, but I can't find it. Any clue? -- [[User:Luk|<span style="color:#002BB8;">Luk</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Luk|<span style="color:#6666FF;">talk</span>]]</sup> 12:31, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

:This would be somewhat tricky, but it's possible. The idea would be to use RGB colour values formatted in CSS using the rgb() notation, e.g. "background-colour:rgb(255, 255, 255);" for white. Since you then have decimal values instead of the usual hexadecimal notation, you could use the #expr: ParserFunction to compute the weighted average of a starting and ending colour given a range. I'm a little busy at the moment, so I won't code up an example, but it's certainly possible. Whether it would look pretty is another issue that would probably require significant tweaking with exceptions and multiple ranges. <nowiki>{</nowiki>{[[User:Nihiltres|<span style="color:#233D7A;">Nihiltres</span>]]<nowiki>|</nowiki><span class="plainlinks">[[User talk:Nihiltres|talk]]<nowiki>|</nowiki>[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?user=Nihiltres log]</span>}<nowiki>}</nowiki> 17:42, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

== Piped link propblem ==

In [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lorem_ipsum&oldid=288807706#History_and_discovery|This version of Lorem Ipsum], there was a piped external link to la.wikisource. However, the first word after the pipe was taken to be part of the link, and taken away from the displayed text, resulting in a "Titulus Malus" (bad title). I sorted this out by putting a space after the pipe, which didn't put an extra space in the displayed text. Why did this happen. Should I report this to Bugzilla? Thanks, [[User:God Emperor|God Emperor]] ([[User talk:God Emperor|talk]]) 15:57, 13 May 2009 (UTC).

:The same thing happened with my link above. [[User:God Emperor|God Emperor]] ([[User talk:God Emperor|talk]]) 16:00, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

:: In external links the target and the title are seperated by a space, not by a pipe: <nowiki>[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lorem_ipsum&oldid=288807706#History_and_discovery This version of Lorem Ipsum]</nowiki><br>[[User talk:Amalthea|<span style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant:small-caps;color:#823824;font-weight:normal">Amalthea</span>]] 16:02, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

::: Thanks. I just found that out and then went to correct the page to see you'd already done it before coming here. [[User:God Emperor|God Emperor]] ([[User talk:God Emperor|talk]]) 16:11, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

== Applying one special page to another ==

When I click on "What links here", the "Related changes" tool vanishes from the toolbox. Is it possible to apply "Related changes" to a "What links here" page? [[User:Ntsimp|Ntsimp]] ([[User talk:Ntsimp|talk]]) 17:25, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
:What do you actually want to do? If you want to view recent changes to pages on the 'what links here' list, that option's already available via [[Special:RecentChangesLinked|related changes]]. [[User talk:Algebraist|Algebraist]] 17:30, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
::Thanks. I didn't know about that. [[User:Ntsimp|Ntsimp]] ([[User talk:Ntsimp|talk]]) 18:12, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

== Temporarily hiding the "create a book" interface ==

Following concerns raised in the Usability Study, and the proliferation of books of questionable utility, there's an [[Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Disabling .22create a book.22|'''ongoing discussion''']] at VPR about temporarily hiding the "create a book" interface from the sidebar, until the system can be redesigned to be more user- and site-friendly. All welcome to the discussion and [[Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#So it is a problem|'''straw poll''']]. [[User:Happy-melon|<b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b>]] 17:27, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
== Firefox won't show images ==

{{Resolved}}
At a library, I never see images.

When I sign on the computer, it often tells me what version the most recent update was, and lately it is telling me 3.0.10.[[User:Vchimpanzee|<span style="color:Green;">Vchimpanzee</span>]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[User talk:Vchimpanzee|<span style="color: orange"> talk</span>]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Vchimpanzee|<span style="color: purple">contributions</span>]]&nbsp;'''·''' 21:12, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

:Most likely the library has disabled the downloading of images for bandwidth/porn reasons. Try asking them. [[User:OrangeDog|OrangeDog]] <small>([[User talk:OrangeDog|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/OrangeDog|edits]])</small> 23:53, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

::I was told they haven't blocked any images. It's just Wikipedia that has the problem.[[User:Vchimpanzee|<span style="color:Green;">Vchimpanzee</span>]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[User talk:Vchimpanzee|<span style="color: orange"> talk</span>]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Vchimpanzee|<span style="color: purple">contributions</span>]]&nbsp;'''·''' 13:45, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Wikipedia's images are not hosted on the same domain as the text. If they have a firewall with strict security settings, then this might be forbidden by their security settings. If you visit different websites, do you see advertisements on ANY webpage ? Advertisements are often also hosted on different domains, and would thus also not be visible. [[Special:Contributions/82.75.218.92|82.75.218.92]] ([[User talk:82.75.218.92|talk]]) 13:56, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

As I said, it's only Wikipedia (and Excite. I checked my email and things look so different. I also can't reply to any emails, but that's a Reference Desk problem). They said they'd get someone to look at the situation, and it has been fixed. I'll have to report back on what they did when the person gets here.[[User:Vchimpanzee|<span style="color:Green;">Vchimpanzee</span>]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[User talk:Vchimpanzee|<span style="color: orange"> talk</span>]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Vchimpanzee|<span style="color: purple">contributions</span>]]&nbsp;'''·''' 14:09, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

He's here now. He said he reset the preferences on Firefox.[[User:Vchimpanzee|<span style="color:Green;">Vchimpanzee</span>]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[User talk:Vchimpanzee|<span style="color: orange"> talk</span>]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Vchimpanzee|<span style="color: purple">contributions</span>]]&nbsp;'''·''' 14:30, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

The Excite problem is solved too. I needed to click in a different place.[[User:Vchimpanzee|<span style="color:Green;">Vchimpanzee</span>]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[User talk:Vchimpanzee|<span style="color: orange"> talk</span>]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Vchimpanzee|<span style="color: purple">contributions</span>]]&nbsp;'''·''' 20:55, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

== Magic word for redirect source ==

Per [[WT:Hatnote#Restrictions on hatnote usage|this discussion]], it seems it would be useful if there were a magic word or something that returns the page the user was redirected from. That way we could write conditional hatnotes ("X redirects here; for other uses...") that would be displayed only if the user came through that particular redirect. Any idea whether this is feasible, or whether it's ever been suggested before? I wouldn't have thought it would be particularly difficult, since a link to the the redirect source is displayed under the title, so the information is obviously being forwarded. --[[User:Kotniski|Kotniski]] ([[User talk:Kotniski|talk]]) 17:34, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
:A similar idea was recently discussed at [[WP:Village pump (proposals)/Archive 46#Customizable redirect text|Proposals]] and garnered some degree of support.  Personally, I like the idea because it allows for removal of the hatnotes that pertain to a redirect instead of the article's title. —[[User:Ost316|Ost]] ([[User talk:Ost316|talk]]) 18:11, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
::Will not be implemented, because it would invalidate any parser cache of the page for each access request. [[bugzilla:17121]] —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 18:43, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Thanks for linking the bug and describing the difficulty.  How is the "redirected from" note currently inserted onto pages when redirected and could this method be expanded to longer messages?  Could the message be incorporated into the redirect syntax instead of on the destination article?  The last post on the bug recommends JavaScript; is that a possiblity? —[[User:Ost316|Ost]] ([[User talk:Ost316|talk]]) 19:23, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
::::That message is added directly by the php that generates the webpage. The parsercache is basically the "evaluated" (HTML) version of the "raw" wikicode you see in the edit window. When you view a mediawiki page, the webserver generates the HTML page, and inserts the "cached" version of the article content from the parsercache. There is virtually complete disconnect between the HTML of the interface and that of the article, so it is difficult to do what you suggest. With Javascript you can do almost anything, but it also adds to the load of a page and it needs a plain HTML "fallback" method, because not everyone has Javascript enabled. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 19:43, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::Where/how did you get all your insights into the response process?  Is there something we should be reading, or are you familiar with the source code?  - [[User:Pointillist|Pointillist]] ([[User talk:Pointillist|talk]]) 21:07, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
::::::I lurk around a lot on the IRC channel of the developers :D —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 22:09, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::::Maybe you could write some of it up one day...?  [[User:Pointillist|Pointillist]] ([[User talk:Pointillist|talk]]) 22:15, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
::::::::Well, these things are described somewhere, it's just that wikipedia/wikimedia is very complicated and hard to summarize. Perhaps you are interested in this diagram created by [[User:Mr.Z-man]]. [[File:MediaWiki-render-flowchart.svg|thumb]] —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 23:59, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

OK, I thought caching might be a problem (not insurmountable, I would have thought - there are plenty of other magic words which have different values per request). But how about solving it from the other direction: have tags on the redirect page which cause transclusion of wikitext to the target page. Something like <tt><nowiki><include>some-wikitext</include></nowiki></tt>, which would cause ''some-wikitext'' to be HTML-ed and inserted at the appropriate place in the returned page (under the title and before the HTML from that page's wikitext, I suppose). Has that sort of thing ever been considered?--[[User:Kotniski|Kotniski]] ([[User talk:Kotniski|talk]]) 08:11, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

:This was proposed recently; while it's not possible to implement as you describe, we ''can'' change the "Redirected from foo" message ([[MediaWiki:Redirectedfrom]]) to potentially include other stuff, even transclude templates etc.  It's just a question of where to put the text so it can be easily but safely included. [[User:Happy-melon|<b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b>]] 14:53, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
::So we could add to that message something like <code><nowiki>{{#ifexist:$1/RedirectHeader|{{:$1/RedirectHeader}}}}</nowiki></code>? (Then we would have to fix the CSS so that the small, under-the-title style was applied only to the fixed message and not to the transcluded bit.)--[[User:Kotniski|Kotniski]] ([[User talk:Kotniski|talk]]) 05:58, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
::: That would clutter article space with those pseudo-subpages, so it's probably not a good idea. More likely to work well would be something like what is done for [[WP:Editnotice|per-page editnotices]] in namespaces without subpages since domas disabled the storage of those in the MediaWiki namespace: Store them as subpages of some appropriate template. Also, it would be user-friendly to use a "loader" template that would wrap the notice in a div and include something like {{tl|vde}}. [[User:Anomie|Anomie]][[User talk:Anomie|⚔]] 11:52, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
:::: In addition, you might get some heat from a dev for a change like that. They didn't like a very simple parser function in [[MediaWiki:nstab-main]], they probably won't like an expensive one on every redirected page. [[User talk:Amalthea|<span style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant:small-caps;color:#823824;font-weight:normal">Amalthea</span>]] 12:08, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::<moan>Maybe it would encourage the devs to actually come up with a solution instead of forcing us to use workarounds all the time...</moan> Can it really be that difficult to program something like the <include...</include solution proposed above?--[[User:Kotniski|Kotniski]] ([[User talk:Kotniski|talk]]) 12:42, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
:Well there's always the chance that us doing something crazy might prompt the devs to actually provide appropriate functionality rather than knee-jerk against the hack.  We could do something like this:
:<tt><nowiki>Redirected from $1. {{str ≤ len| {{{{FULLPAGENAME}}|$1}} | 200 | {{{{FULLPAGENAME}}|$1}} }}</nowiki></tt>
:Then we could put at the top of a particular article itself:
:<tt><nowiki>&lt;onlyinclude>{{#switch: {{{1|}}} | Foo = Foo is something | Bar = Bar is something else }}&lt;/onlyinclude></nowiki></tt>
:This transcludes the entire contents of the page into the redirect message, but only if it's less than 200 characters.  So You can use the {{tag|onlyinclude}} tags to ensure that only the hatnote is included in the message; and a #switch to select between possible redirects.  No expensive parserfunctions, and reasonably safe. And you can put the onlyinclude section anywhere you like on the page, maybe at the bottom would be better than the top.  This would probably fail spectacularly with templates, but this is only really useful for articles, which shouldn't ever be transcluded AFAIK.  That particular string function is not horribly expensive like most of the padleft: based hacks.  Thoughts? [[User:Happy-melon|<b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b>]] 12:54, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
:: Hehehe. Smooth. I like it. I don't think that transcluding the page + the string hack is actually cheaper than the #ifexist, but it's good that the hatnotes can be placed in the article itself. Of course, having them in the redirect would be even better, but that needs a MediaWiki change I guess. [[User talk:Amalthea|<span style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant:small-caps;color:#823824;font-weight:normal">Amalthea</span>]] 13:17, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

===String length function===
On a side note, why is there no string length function in MW? Presumably it would take about ten minutes of coding for someone who knows what they're doing. Another case where a tiny improvement to the software would eliminate the need for ugly and costly hacks like the "str ≤ len" one that had to be used in the above.--[[User:Kotniski|Kotniski]] ([[User talk:Kotniski|talk]]) 16:08, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
:[[mw:Extension:StringFunctions]], as requested by {{phab|8455}} for almost three years now.  Please, do go vote for it over at bugzilla; the more the merrier! [[User:Happy-melon|<b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b>]] 16:11, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

== error trying to submit to a discussion ==

I do not know if this is a one-shot error b/c I've gotten 2 different errors in the last 10 minutes. This is what I got the 2nd time:

Wikimedia Foundation
Error

Our servers are currently experiencing a technical problem. This is probably temporary and should be fixed soon. Please try again in a few minutes.

You may be able to get further information in the #wikipedia channel on the Freenode IRC network.

The Wikimedia Foundation is a non-profit organisation which hosts some of the most popular sites on the Internet, including Wikipedia. It has a constant need to purchase new hardware. If you would like to help, please donate.

If you report this error to the Wikimedia System Administrators, please include the details below.

Request: POST http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:2009_US_swine_flu_outbreak_table&action=submit, from 208.80.152.35 via sq33.wikimedia.org (squid/2.7.STABLE6) to 10.2.1.1 (10.2.1.1)
Error: ERR_ZERO_SIZE_OBJECT, errno [No Error] at Fri, 15 May 2009 04:10:01 GMT

I waited 10 minutes after this and the submission went through. I though I should report this, nevertheless.

<b>Scratch that:</b> I just got a similar error trying to report this:

Request: POST http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)&action=submit, from 208.80.152.41 via sq19.wikimedia.org (squid/2.7.STABLE6) to 10.2.1.1 (10.2.1.1)
Error: ERR_ZERO_SIZE_OBJECT, errno [No Error] at Fri, 15 May 2009 04:20:15 GMT 

[[User:Earthsound|Earthsound]] ([[User talk:Earthsound|talk]]) 04:22, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
== < source lang=lua > fails on single-quoted strings ==

The program code display parser for Lua (< source lang=lua >) doesn't handle single-quoted(') strings. See, e.g., [[User talk:Wfaxon/padfixer]], where most of the (all working) code displays in red.  --[[User:Wfaxon|Wfaxon]] ([[User talk:Wfaxon|talk]]) 18:03, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

:What is it supposed to do? This is handled by the [[mw:Extension:SyntaxHighlight GeSHi|GeSHi Syntax Highlighter]] with some local customization by [[MediaWiki:Geshi.css]]. Per the [[GeSHi]] documentation, single quotes delimit strings. ---'''''—&nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]<span style="color:darkblue">&nbsp;</span>'''''<sup>[[User talk:Gadget850|''talk'']]</sup> 19:26, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

*The syntax colorer is getting confused by the line <tt>if string.find(y,'"') then</tt>. The same also happens with <tt>lang="javascript"</tt> on regular expressions containing single single- or double-quotes as in <tt>foo.replace(/'/g, "%27");</tt>. Just fix it by adding a comment containing another unmatched quote, for instance <tt>if string.find(y,'"') then -- 'Fix syntax coloring</tt> HTH, [[User:Lupo|Lupo]] 19:50, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

* FWIW, there are several errors in GeSHi. For example, it doesn't recognize javascript regular expressions: <syntaxhighlight lang=javascript>var foo = /inline regex isn't recognized./gi;</syntaxhighlight>Those errors will need to go through [http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=114997&atid=670231 their bugtracking system though] (and might have been reported already of course). [[User talk:Amalthea|<span style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant:small-caps;color:#823824;font-weight:normal">Amalthea</span>]] 19:56, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
::I have a hack to get pass the javascript problem. I had reported it to Bugzilla but it hasn't been fixed yet.
<syntaxhighlight lang=javascript>
		abcd = efg.replace(/\"/g,"")
	}
//This should be green comment color, but it is colored blue, the color of a string
var colorRectifier = "\""     //returns coloring to normal
//coloring is normal here
</syntaxhighlight>
In this code, I am removing quotation marks from some text. As it is in a regxp, I backslash it. The backslash escape isn't recognized, and I have to put another backslashed quote to rectify the coloring.`[[User:Manishearth|<span style="color:orange;">Manish</span><i style="color:green;">Earth</i>]]<sup>[[User talk:Manishearth|<span style="color:orange;">Talk</span>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Manishearth|<span style="color:green;">Stalk</span>]]</sup>  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|undated]] comment added 15:31, 15 May 2009 (UTC).</span><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
**I believe this has already been fixed in recent versions of GeSHi, but Wikimedia is using an older version. <span style="font-family:Broadway;">[[User:Mr.Z-man|Mr.]][[User talk:Mr.Z-man|'''''Z-'''man'']]</span> 20:51, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

:[[Bugzilla:10967]] tracks the request for updating GeSHi. We need to double-check the current deployment setup and see what's sitting in source now... --[[User:Brion VIBBER|brion]] ([[User talk:Brion VIBBER|talk]]) 18:34, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

== Minimizing the Browser window makes the text goes beyond the frame ==

I was going through the wikipedia article related to MXML - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MXML

When the browser size is minimized to half of the browser window size, the "sample mxml application code" was going beyond the outline and the page was getting extended. Its not a problem though, except that the window stretches to the right beyond the page width.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/122.183.242.174|122.183.242.174]] ([[User talk:122.183.242.174|talk]]) 08:52, 15 May 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:This is a common and deliberate formatting although some of the source code lines in that particular article may be a little long. Your browser probably has a horizontal scroll bar where you can scroll to the right. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 10:39, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
::You do not HAVE to use the scroll bar. When the text goes out of the box, just highlight it ad drag your mouse to the right. Try it here:
{{hidden begin|title=Hidden so we don't have to have a page with insane scrolling for the next 4+ days|titlestyle = background:pink;}}
<syntaxhighlight lang=Javascript>
<H1>Scrollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll</H1>
</syntaxhighlight>
{{hidden end}}
This is particularly useful when you are reading a long script and want to see what is after the cutoff without having to go down to the scrollbar and scroll.
<BR>
This feature was added so that code looks the way it should. For example, in most programming languages, if the cutoff was put on the next line, the meaning of the code could change. [[User:Manishearth|<span style="color:orange;">Manish</span><i style="color:green;">Earth</i>]]<sup>[[User talk:Manishearth|<span style="color:orange;">Talk</span>]] • [[Special:Contributions/Manishearth|<span style="color:green;">Stalk</span>]]</sup> 15:18, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

== [[Gavin & Stacey]] ==

If I click on "edit top" here, I am directed to [[Gavin]], rather than the infobox/lead. It's late here, and I can see no obvious reason for this. Anyone care to figure it out? Thanks. [[User:Rodhullandemu|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#0000FF">Rodhull</span>]][[User_talk:Rodhullandemu|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#FF0000">andemu</span>]] 00:32, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
:Where is the "edit top" you refer to? I don't see that text. Maybe it is made by a gadget or something else. If it fails to percent encode '&' in the title then the effect is what you describe, for example if it makes the url http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gavin_&_Stacey&action=edit&section=0 instead of http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gavin_%26_Stacey&action=edit&section=0. I use the gadget "Add an [edit] link for the lead section of a page" which works correctly by percent encoding. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 01:14, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
::Found and fixed the problem [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%3AVoice_of_All%2Fadmin%2Fmonobook.js&action=view&diff=290216590 diff] —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 01:40, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
== WhatLinksHere show-hide toggles don't work ==

The options e.g. "Hide transclusions" don't seem to work at all at the moment. See e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Lubuntu&limit=100&hidetrans=1 - I think just about all of those links are transclusions. - [[User:Fayenatic london|Fayenatic]] [[User talk:Fayenatic london|(talk)]] 13:11, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
:What do you mean? [[Lubuntu]] does not exist. Where do you think it is transcluded? Maybe you are confusing a page that is transcluded with a page which is linked from another transcluded page. [[Lubuntu]] is linked from [[Template:Ubuntu]] which is transcluded on many pages, so [[Lubuntu]] is also linked from those pages. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 14:03, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
::Yes, but when looking at "What links here", if I choose "Hide transclusions", shouldn't the articles that include the template disappear from the list? i.e. it should then only show the pages, like this one, that have a specific link to [[Lubuntu]]. However, it doesn't work; it still includes all the pages that only transclude the template. - [[User:Fayenatic london|Fayenatic]] [[User talk:Fayenatic london|(talk)]] 21:37, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
:::That's not the meaning of the filter.  Pages can either be linked to on a page ([[Foo]]), they can be transcluded onto the page (<code><nowiki>{{foo}}</nowiki></code>), or they can be redirects to the page.  [[Lubuntu]] is not transcluded anywhere: there is nowhere on Wikipedia that contains the code <tt><nowiki>{{:Lubuntu}}</nowiki></tt>.  There are a few pages that ''link'' to the page, so they show up as links, as expected.  How the link comes to be on the page is irrelevant. [[User:Happy-melon|<b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b>]] 21:42, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
::::OK, thanks - I misunderstood. I think it would be useful to be able to exclude pages which only link through a transcluded template. Can I request that feature somewhere? - [[User:Fayenatic london|Fayenatic]] [[User talk:Fayenatic london|(talk)]] 16:26, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

== Redirect editing ==

Anyone have a quick way to click on a redirect link and open it for editing without having to go to the redirected page, back up to the redirect and edit? ---'''''—&nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]<span style="color:darkblue">&nbsp;</span>'''''<sup>[[User talk:Gadget850|''talk'']]</sup> 01:45, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
:Hover with popups and select edit from the menu. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 01:51, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
::Thanks! ---'''''—&nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]<span style="color:darkblue">&nbsp;</span>'''''<sup>[[User talk:Gadget850|''talk'']]</sup> 11:39, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
Even without that you could use a javascript to add <tt>&redirect=no</tt> to the url of all links with <tt>class="mw-redirect"</tt>. — [[User talk:CharlotteWebb|CharlotteWebb]] 01:49, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

== Can someone please fix [[Template:Essay]]? ==

Can someone please fix [[Template:Essay]]? It's supposed to automatically add a page to [[:Category:User essays]] but it won't auto-categorise anymore for some reason. Noone seems to know why. -- '''[[User:OlEnglish|OlEnglish]]''' <sup>([[User talk:OlEnglish|Talk]])</sup> 09:02, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
:Hmn, looks to work now.  I'm not sure if my tweak had anything to do with that; it shouldn't have. [[User:Happy-melon|<b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b>]] 09:54, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
::It looks like a bot screwed it up in [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Essay&diff=next&oldid=281818850] with "cosmetic changes". [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 10:33, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Hmm. Looks like that bot got taken to ANI for bad "cosmetic changes"... [[User:Happy-melon|<b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b>]] 10:58, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

== Incorrect Icon ==

Heya ... for the [[2009_Super_14_season|2009 Super 14]] page the '''''current sports event''''' icon features a football ... is it possible to change this to a rugby ball ...[http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Rugby_football_current_event.png] ... which is more relevant ? Cheers :1 [[User:Boomshanka|Boomshanka]] ([[User talk:Boomshanka|talk]]) 11:19, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

:Best to ask on the article talk page, especially since the current image is noted as the "official logo". Frankly, I see little difference in the two images of the balls. ---'''''—&nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]<span style="color:darkblue">&nbsp;</span>'''''<sup>[[User talk:Gadget850|''talk'']]</sup> 11:38, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
::Boomshanka refers to {{tl|Current sport}} which has a soccer football as default and lists [[:File:Rugby current event.svg]] for rugby so I used that.[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2009_Super_14_season&diff=290306759&oldid=290300697] [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 13:12, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

== Secure server using insecure images ==

When using secure wikipedia, the images are incorrectly uploaded from an insecure location. Example: for the [[main page]] at the [https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Main_Page secure server], the media is uploaded from an [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bc/Wiki.png insecure] connection at http://upload.wikimedia.org/ which is insecure. [[User:Smallman12q|Smallman12q]] ([[User talk:Smallman12q|talk]]) 22:03, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

:I'm certain this has been discussed before- see the talk archives. ---'''''—&nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]<span style="color:darkblue">&nbsp;</span>'''''<sup>[[User talk:Gadget850|''talk'']]</sup> 22:33, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

According to Greg Maxwell [http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2008-September/039335.html] this can be solved by having both servers use "protocol-relative urls" e.g.<pre><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bc/Wiki.png" /></pre>Browsers supporting this will use "http" or "https" depending on the url of the referring page. — [[User talk:CharlotteWebb|CharlotteWebb]] 01:44, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
== Keyboard shortcut to the edit box ==

What is the keyboard shortcut to the edit box (the big box everyone writes edits in), I am trying to program [[Autohotkey]] without using the mouse.

[[Wikipedia:Keyboard shortcuts]] doesn't help, and the tab key doesn't help either. 

Thanks in advance. [[User:Ikip|Ikip]] ([[User talk:Ikip|talk]]) 03:58, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

:Looking at the page source, I see that the access key is defined to be a comma.  In Firefox 3 and IE 7, the key combination would be Alt+Shift+comma.  -- [[User:Tcncv|Tcncv]] ([[User talk:Tcncv|talk]]) 04:12, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
::I have ie 6, 
:::alt + , 
::thanks a lot! [[User:Ikip|Ikip]] ([[User talk:Ikip|talk]]) 04:17, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

:I now switched to firefox, Alt+Shift+comma does not work in firefox 2.0. Any suggestions? [[User:Ikip|Ikip]] ([[User talk:Ikip|talk]]) 09:40, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

== WTF? ==

{{quote|A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last attempted database query was:

    (SQL query hidden)

from within function "Revision::insertOn". MySQL returned error "1205: Lock wait timeout exceeded; Try restarting transaction (10.0.6.22)".}}

I'm trying to add info to a blocked sickpuppet page to assist the unblocking admin here. This doesn't help. Any ideas? [[User:Rodhullandemu|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#0000FF">Rodhull</span>]][[User_talk:Rodhullandemu|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#FF0000">andemu</span>]] 03:12, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
:The whole database was locked for about 7 minutes, it seems to be resolved now though. [[User:ZX81|<span style="font-size:14px;font-weight:bold;font-family:verdana;color:#800040;filter:Shadow(color=#000000,strength=1);height:15px;">ZX81</span>]] [[User talk:ZX81|<span style="font-size:11px;font-family:verdana;"><sup>talk</sup></span>]] 03:13, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
::OK, just got it again, but the error message is less than helpful. Thanks. [[User:Rodhullandemu|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#0000FF">Rodhull</span>]][[User_talk:Rodhullandemu|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#FF0000">andemu</span>]] 03:15, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
:::The message is useful to those who can actually resolve the issue: the MediaWiki developers.  I agree it's not particularly useful to normal editors. [[User:Happy-melon|<b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b>]] 10:26, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Actually the message is more clear than some. A lock in a database prevents other processes from writing to it while a particular process that holds the lock makes a sequence of changes. Your edit was waiting to acquire the lock, but it had to wait too long, so it gave up. This means something is holding the lock too long, or there are too many processes trying to get the lock at the same time. The system admins with access to the database can use the db administration features to diagnose what's going on with the locks, and then try to remedy it. There is nothing that can be done on our end except to let them know that the error is happening. &mdash;&nbsp;Carl <small>([[User:CBM|CBM]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:CBM|talk]])</small> 19:26, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

== An important TFD discussion ==

Notice is hereby given that there is a [[Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2009 May 4/template:R from other capitalisation|TFD discussion]] concerning whether [[template:R from other capitalisation]] shall be deleted. [[User:Erik9|Erik9]] ([[User talk:Erik9|talk]]) 00:09, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
== Page source search ==

I'd like to search all non-File: pages for the text "<nowiki>[[Wikipedia:Non-free content|Non-free TV-related media rationale]]</nowiki>".  Is there a way to do this? --[[User:Carnildo|Carnildo]] ([[User talk:Carnildo|talk]]) 23:01, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
:Not an easy one. You could use a database dump; the next all pages/current version dump for enwiki has an ETA of about 15 hours from now. Or you can use the API with generator=backlinks, looking for links to [[Wikipedia:Non-free content]] in every namespace except for 6. According to a db query, there's 178491 links to it outside of ns:6, so that would be a minimum of 357 queries with a sysop or bot account. The vast majority of the links are in ns:3 and ns:1. <span style="font-family:Broadway;">[[User:Mr.Z-man|Mr.]][[User talk:Mr.Z-man|'''''Z-'''man'']]</span> 01:37, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

:I can do this from a database dump; give me a few hours to download it. &mdash;&nbsp;Carl <small>([[User:CBM|CBM]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:CBM|talk]])</small> 19:44, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

:I did not find any non-file pages. I found 47 files, listed below. &mdash;&nbsp;Carl <small>([[User:CBM|CBM]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:CBM|talk]])</small> 01:00, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
[[:File:Tvraven0.jpg]] · [[:File:MorganJones.jpg]] · [[:File:RandallHopkirk10.jpg]] · [[:File:Randall17shot.jpg]] · [[:File:Szkłokontaktowe.jpg]] · [[:File:Allstarcup1.jpg]] · [[:File:RichardandJudyshow.jpg]] · [[:File:Kung Mahawi Man Ang Ulap screencap.JPG]] · [[:File:Fifteentoonecircle.jpg]] · [[:File:Kieltyalmostlive1.jpg]] · [[:File:ZackMorris.jpg]] · [[:File:SavedbytheBell3.jpg]] · [[:File:MalibuCA.jpg]] · [[:File:Kelly Kapowski.jpg]] · [[:File:Jamie's School Dinners.jpg]] · [[:File:Hell's KitchenUK.jpg]] · [[:File:BadInfluence.jpg]] · [[:File:NamRood.jpg]] · [[:File:My-only-love.jpg]] · [[:File:Kamandag01.jpg]] · [[:File:Pinoy-records.jpg]] · [[:File:Kaunshadrukh.jpg]] · [[:File:RandallHopkirk13.jpg]] · [[:File:RandallHopkirk16.jpg]] · [[:File:RandallHopkirk22.jpg]] · [[:File:RandallHopkirk23.jpg]] · [[:File:RandallHopkirk24.jpg]] · [[:File:RandallHopkirk25.jpg]] · [[:File:RandallHopkirk9.jpg]] · [[:File:RandallHopkirk11.jpg]] · [[:File:RandallHopkirk12.jpg]] · [[:File:RandallHopkirk14.jpg]] · [[:File:RandallHopkirk15.jpg]] · [[:File:RandallHopkirk17.jpg]] · [[:File:RandallHopkirk18.jpg]] · [[:File:RandallHopkirk19.jpg]] · [[:File:RandallHopkirk20.jpg]] · [[:File:RandallHopkirk21.jpg]] · [[:File:RandallHopkirk26.jpg]] · [[:File:Randall and hopkirk deceased (original version) dvd box set cover.jpg]] · [[:File:Randall and hopkirk deceased (new version) dvd volume 2 cover.jpg]] · [[:File:SK Screen.jpg]] · [[:File:Maging-akin-ka-lamang.jpg]] · [[:File:Thefivethirtyshow.gif]] · [[:File:Ittadi.jpg]] · [[:File:Magdusa.jpg]] · [[:File:ChingBBCHD.jpg]]
:Thanks.  I was hoping to find the template that produces that text, but it looks like it's either generated by a meta-template, or it's off-wiki. --[[User:Carnildo|Carnildo]] ([[User talk:Carnildo|talk]]) 23:28, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
::I believe it is generated by some edited version of [[Template:Filmr]], possibly copied and pasted. I'll look to see if I can find anything more, but it seems unlikely. The best bet would be to as [[User:Dr. Blofeld]] if he remembers where it was. &mdash;&nbsp;Carl <small>([[User:CBM|CBM]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:CBM|talk]])</small> 23:33, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

== Tables ==

I have two issues involving the tables found at [[List of Holden vehicles by series]]:

*'''Table of contents''': because I do not use the TOC contents within list body as section names, they do not link. What I would like, is to have the "48" in the TOC to link the "48" part of the table (but not to the section "First generation (1948–1956)"). Is there some way of linking this way, and if so, could someone please do one for me so that I can see how it is done?

*'''Width''': of the table found under the section "Tenth generation (1997–2007)" is rendered much wider that the other tables when viewed in Safari and Opera and IE 6, but is fine under Firefox 3. From what I can see, the "width" parameters are identical in each table, and I can not work out the problem. Basically, I need to have all the tables and all the cells of each separate table to line up exactly. Thanks in advance. <small>[[User:OSX|OSX]] ([[User talk:OSX|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/OSX|contributions]])</small> 08:05, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

I have one more request on top of these two: it it possible to have a link at the bottom of each section titled "Table of contents" and a link back to the TOC? <small>[[User:OSX|OSX]] ([[User talk:OSX|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/OSX|contributions]])</small> 08:13, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

:You could use {{tl|Anchor}} but the TOC is supposed to link to sections and not to table rows. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 10:24, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

::Thanks, but I can not get this to work. Could something who does do one for me as an example? Cheers. <small>[[User:OSX|OSX]] ([[User talk:OSX|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/OSX|contributions]])</small> 06:45, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

:::I'm not sure about the best placement when the first cell spans multiple rows and there are column headings at varying distance above. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Holden_vehicles_by_series&diff=290678015&oldid=290671967] is a possibility for [[List of Holden vehicles by series#FJ]]. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 08:45, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

::::Cheers. That works well. I moved the "anchor" template to the table heading so that these are included. Any way, many thanks. <small>[[User:OSX|OSX]] ([[User talk:OSX|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/OSX|contributions]])</small> 09:11, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

== Usability Study ==

Is there some place that we are discussing [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2009-05-11/News and notes|this]]?  I think it's a big deal, but since it's over at wikimedia there doesn't seem to be a place to discuss it.  The only thing I've found so far is [http://blog.wikimedia.org/2009/04/24/usability-study-results-sneak-preview/ this].  Thanks. - [[User:Peregrine Fisher|Peregrine Fisher]] ([[User talk:Peregrine Fisher|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Peregrine_Fisher|contribs]]) 00:46, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
:Have a look at [http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2009-April/051528.html this discussion] going on at the foundation-l mailing list. [[User:Dedalus|Dedalus]] ([[User talk:Dedalus|talk]]) 08:09, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
::There is also some discussion going on at the [[Wikipedia:Village Pump (proposals)]]. Input on "new article" and "books functionality" greatly appreciated. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 09:49, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

== Wikibits.js is slowing down WP pages? ==

in [[:File:Carbon Monoxide timings Jorge Stolfi 2009-05-17 20-30.png]] please find a screenshot showing the tmings and duration forloading each component of the [[Carbon Monoxide]] article.  

The displayed plot spans the entire download, 5.9 seconds.  Notice that the load of the page itself takes 0.99 seconds. Halfway through its download (t ~ 0.5 sec) there begins a spurt of parallel dowloads, apparently CSS files, which end at t ~ 1.5 sec.  Then there is a long chain of serial downloads that takes off where [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css&usemsgcache=yes&ctype=text%2Fcss&smaxage=2678400&action=raw&maxage=2678400 MediaWiki:Common.css] (?) ends. The chain begins with [http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/wikibits.js?207xx wikibits.js] and ends with [http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Wikiminiatlas.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript&smaxage=21600&maxage=86400 MediaWiki:Wikiminiatlas.js], at t ~ 4.0 sec. Finally all the images are dowloaded, almost in parallel; the last one to finish is the [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bc/Wiki.png wikipedia logo].

Thus the chain that begins with wikibits.js is responsible for about 3.5 seconds of the total 5.9 sec download time.

The useful contents (main text and images) could have been downloaded in about 2.5 sec, or perhaps as little as 2.0 sec if images could be downloaded in parallel with the text.

It looks like one could cut the user-perceived download time by 50% or more just by repackaging the js/css files in that hain info a single file. Is that feasible?

I am using Firefox 3.0.8 under Linux Madriva 1.9.0.8-0.1mdv2009.0.  The timings were obtained with the Firebug add-on for Firefox. The page was fetched with shift-reload which (AFAIK) ignores the browser's cache and fetches every component from the net. 

By the way, for the last week or so, WP downloads often hang halfway and stay there forever.  I still cannot figure out the culprit, but "waiting for upload.wikimedia.ord" often appears in the status bar at those times.  Has this been discussed anuwhere?

All the best, --[[User:Jorge Stolfi|Jorge Stolfi]] ([[User talk:Jorge Stolfi|talk]]) 01:05, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

:I can confirm the behaviour as observed by Jorge; it doesn't happen consistently, though. Often it is so bad that it makes editing impossible, and then pages load with normal speed again. -- [[User:Michael Bednarek|Michael Bednarek]] ([[User talk:Michael Bednarek|talk]]) 06:36, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

::Yesterday, it was slow on saving long pages too. I supposed that it might had something to do with the filters. -- User:Docu  08:24, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

:::This has much to do with the way how Firefox processes Javascript btw. On Safari, everything runs much more in parallel. However [http://techblog.wikimedia.org/2009/04/skin-js-cleanup-and-jquery/ change is comming]. Actually for a large part this is already done. It's just that the website has not been synced with the sourcecode for over 2 months now (Busy developers). —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 09:46, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
::::Compared to WebKit (Nightly build), logged out, empty cache and shift-reload. [[:File:Carbon Monoxide timings TheDJ 2009-05-18 10-00.jpg]] But let us not forget that most of this stuff is all cached subsequently. Wikipedia is a large website, there just is no denying it. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 10:06, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

== Add link to Abuse Log in [[Special:Contributions]] header ==

How do I add a link to the abuse log to the header of [[Special:Contributions]]? Note that I am an admin, so I can edit the MediaWiki: namespace myself. [[User:Od Mishehu|עוד&nbsp;מישהו]] [[User talk:Od Mishehu|Od&nbsp;Mishehu]] 07:53, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
: I'm fairly certain that we can't configure the whole line, only the labels, but you can add it to the footer through [[MediaWiki:Sp-contributions-footer]] and [[MediaWiki:Sp-contributions-footer-anon]]. [[User talk:Amalthea|<span style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant:small-caps;color:#823824;font-weight:normal">Amalthea</span>]] 08:13, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
:As Amalthea says, you can't do this as an admin -- you'll need to file a feature request on [[bugzilla:]]. [[User:Sam Korn|<nowiki>[[Sam Korn]]</nowiki>]] <sup>[[User talk:Sam Korn|(smoddy)]]</sup> 08:36, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
:On another project, I did just that with some JavaScript, for sysops only. It is actually quite convenient, so you might try suggesting it at [[MediaWiki_talk:Sysop.js]]. Meanwhile, it's been implemented in MediaWiki ([[mediazilla:18423]]), but we haven't seen MediaWiki updates live for quite a while. — [[user:Alex Smotrov|AlexSm]] 19:08, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

== Hiding Template ==

I have a template. {{t1|Cotton processing flowchart}}. I want to display it on some pages- in full (such [[Cotton mill]] and on other pages collapsed (such as [[Lancashire Loom]]), using a simple syntax <nowiki>{{t1|Cotton processing |Show}}  {{Cotton processing |Hide}}.</nowiki> What is the syntax?
*Do I wrap the call on the article page
*Do I add a special class into the template
*Do I write a container template
So the question is how is it done? --[[User:ClemRutter|ClemRutter]] ([[User talk:ClemRutter|talk]]) 08:33, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
:You just need something like <nowiki>class="collapsible {{#ifeq:{{{1|}}}|Hide|collapsed}}"</nowiki> on the table. HOWEVER. this also requires the table uses a header. Atm, your infobox is using a caption (! vs. |+) Also, Infoboxes tables and collapsible tables don't really like eachother. You might consider using a collapsible table in one cell of your infobox table. However, in general, it is a bad idea to hide CONTENT (opposed to hiding meta-/navigationdata which we commonly do). —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 09:10, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
::Thanks. It is not actually ever used as an infobox- it just happened to work- so that can be hoiked  out. It has served its purpose- proving the concept that this may be useful on multiple pages and giving a home for the .svg graphics in a table. The opposition to hiding content needs thinking about- it could provide an alternative solution. --[[User:ClemRutter|ClemRutter]] ([[User talk:ClemRutter|talk]]) 19:50, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

== WikiBiff ==

Ladies and gentlemen,

I submit, for your approval, a new application for all you WikiAddicts out there -- WikiBiff.

You know it's happened to you -- someone left a message for you on your user talk page.  Normally, the next browse to another page on Wikipedia would have alerted you to the new message, but you weren't on Wikipedia at the time -- you were off typing up some paper in Word or playing some flash game on the numerous websites that have flash games on them.  You finally saw the message, five hours later, and you realized that the person who left you the message went to bed 15 minutes after they left you the message, sorely disappointed that you never answered them.

Now those days are over, because now WikiBiff is here!  WikiBiff will sit silently in your system tray, and alert you with a friendly balloon whenever you have new messages waiting for you!  Multiple accounts on the same Wiki site?  NO PROBLEM!  Multiple accounts across multiple Wiki sites?  NO PROBLEM!  Just plug your account info into WikiBiff and relax!

Now, on a more serious note, it's 8:25 AM here, and I've been up all night finishing this up, so I'm going to wait on doing things like getting Wiki pages set up for it until later.  Also, I'll make the disclaimer -- ''THIS IS A BETA-QUALITY PROGRAM''.  However, all the same, I'd appreciate having people who are curious try it out, tell me if it works, and give me their feedback on it.  <s>While I await SourceForge to approve the project,</s> I have the binary <s>temporarily</s> posted to <s>http://mikaey.dlinkddns.com:8080/WikiBiff.exe</s> https://sourceforge.net/project/downloading.php?group_id=262865&filename=WikiBiff-0.1.exe&a=25358567 , and the source at <s>http://mikaey.dlinkddns.com:8080/WikiBiff.zip</s> https://sourceforge.net/project/downloading.php?group_id=262865&filename=WikiBiff.zip&a=98717785 .  System requirements (I think) are a Windows 2000/XP/Vista computer with the .NET Framework 3.5 installed.

And if you tell me someone else already did this, after I searched all over for it, and spent all this time writing it, I'm going to be really mad. :-P

Enjoy!  [[User:Mikaey|Matt]] ([[User talk:Mikaey|talk]]) 13:22, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

:That's pretty neat! A couple of things, from a glance at the code:
:* For SUL accounts, having to enter the same account & password for a dozen accounts is a bit stupid, in particular if one changes ones password regularly. The accounts screen should let me tick a whole number of projects where I want to check for messages. Personally though, I'd want to check for messages per default only once per day, on a handful of wikis once per hour, and only on en-wiki every couple minutes, so that would still need to be configurable somehow. :)<br>Even better, I'm sure there is some toolserver tool somewhere that lets me query on which projects my SUL account is registered, so that I don't have to check them myself at all. [[User talk:Amalthea|<span style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant:small-caps;color:#823824;font-weight:normal">Amalthea</span>]] 15:51, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
:**I think something about that (having to enter information for each account) had passed through my mind.  I'll take a look at how I can fix that.   [[User:Mikaey|Matt]] ([[User talk:Mikaey|talk]]) 18:32, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
:**There is an option in the main window to have it check for messages every X seconds, but that's a program-wide setting, not a per-project setting.  Are you saying you'd rather have a per-project setting?  [[User:Mikaey|Matt]] ([[User talk:Mikaey|talk]]) 18:32, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
:*** Yes. Thinking about it a bit more, I probably don't ever want to check for messages at some projects where I have an account at all, e.g. [[:fa:]] or [[:no:]]. And checking on [[:mw:]] or [[:meta:]] more than once per day, or [[:commons:]] more than once per hour, would be a waste for me. I'd only want to check [[:en:]] every ten minutes or so. [[User talk:Amalthea|<span style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant:small-caps;color:#823824;font-weight:normal">Amalthea</span>]] 19:01, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
:* Passwords are stored in the registry, I gather? You might want to offer an option to not store it anywhere, but to ask it on startup. Again, for my SUL account, I would much rather input it once on startup. [[User talk:Amalthea|<span style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant:small-caps;color:#823824;font-weight:normal">Amalthea</span>]] 15:51, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
:* The option to make all requests via https would be very nice. Essential, for some. [[User talk:Amalthea|<span style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant:small-caps;color:#823824;font-weight:normal">Amalthea</span>]] 15:51, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
:**Hmmm...that's a challenge...perhaps in a future version.  [[User:Mikaey|Matt]] ([[User talk:Mikaey|talk]]) 18:32, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
:*** Well, I believe HttpWebRequest would be really helpful there. ;-p [[User talk:Amalthea|<span style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant:small-caps;color:#823824;font-weight:normal">Amalthea</span>]] 19:01, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
:* You know that there is System.Net.HttpWebRequest, right? You don't ''have'' to write the HTTP header yourself, and don't ''have'' to parse and decode the response yourself. Unless you really really want to of course. ;) [[User talk:Amalthea|<span style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant:small-caps;color:#823824;font-weight:normal">Amalthea</span>]] 15:51, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
:**I know. :-)  I tried HttpWebRequest with my bot and was disappointed with its behavior -- basically, it was throwing exceptions for things it shouldn't have.  A portion of my code was copied from that bot, so the old saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" kicked in.  [[User:Mikaey|Matt]] ([[User talk:Mikaey|talk]]) 18:32, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
:* When I just tried it and left myself at [[User talk:Amalthea2]] a message, the tray notification claimed that both my de.wiki account and my en.wiki account had messages, and a click opened both pages. I've entered account credentials for both projects. Was that wrong? Also, how do I get rid of the notification once I read it? It shouldn't still pop up once I clicked it, right? [[User talk:Amalthea|<span style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant:small-caps;color:#823824;font-weight:normal">Amalthea</span>]] 15:51, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
:** *smack*.  Whoops.  That would probably be a problem with the HTTP request that I stupidly left setting at "en.wikipedia.org" in a couple of places.  I'll post the updates in a few minutes.  [[User:Mikaey|Matt]] ([[User talk:Mikaey|talk]]) 18:32, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
:*** *double smack*.  Just discovered another bug that would explain why the balloon keeps popping up.  I posted a new binary at SourceForge.  [[User:Mikaey|Matt]] ([[User talk:Mikaey|talk]]) 22:36, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
:* "User talk" is the canonical namespace name, and works on ''all'' projects, by redirecting to the localized namespace name (e.g. [[:de:User talk:Amalthea2]]). So you wouldn't have needed to figure out the localized namespace. [[User talk:Amalthea|<span style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant:small-caps;color:#823824;font-weight:normal">Amalthea</span>]] 15:51, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
:**Good to know!  I'm not terribly familiar with all the international wikis.  Didn't know they did that.  [[User:Mikaey|Matt]] ([[User talk:Mikaey|talk]]) 18:32, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
:* What's a Biff? [[User talk:Amalthea|<span style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant:small-caps;color:#823824;font-weight:normal">Amalthea</span>]] 15:51, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
:**[[biff]] <span  style="white-space:nowrap">— [[User:Gavia immer|Gavia immer]] ([[User talk:Gavia immer|talk]])</span> 16:54, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
:*** Yes, sometimes I forget where we are. :) Thanks, [[User talk:Amalthea|<span style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant:small-caps;color:#823824;font-weight:normal">Amalthea</span>]] 18:18, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
:**Gavia immer hit it on the nose.  [[User:Mikaey|Matt]] ([[User talk:Mikaey|talk]]) 18:32, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

*'''UPDATE:''' The SourceForge project is up.  See http://www.sf.net/projects/wikibiff .  [[User:Mikaey|Matt]] ([[User talk:Mikaey|talk]]) 20:10, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
== Weird behavior when editing ==

I have recently "upgraded" my Windows Vista PC to Internet Explorer 8.  My first problem was that ''popups'' stopped working, but that was [[Wikipedia talk:Tools/Navigation popups#IE8|quickly fixed]] due to some great work by [[User:TheDJ]], and as a result I have been able to turn off "Compatibility View" mode.  Another three problems with the edit textbox have now become annoying:  
#I have difficulty placing the caret at the end of the line.  I used to be able to click the mouse in the white space to the right of the line and the caret would be placed after the last character on that line.  Now, the caret is often placed at the start of the next line, though this behavoir is not consistant.  Yes, I can click within the text of the line I want to edit and press the "End" key, but why should I have to type this extra key when I didn't before the upgrade?
#When I place the caret in the middle of the text and I start typing, the text box often scrolls so that the caret is on the last line in the window.  For example, suppose the textbox is displaying the last 30 lines of the hundreds of lines in the article and I want to edit the 5th from last line.  I click on that line and start to type.  The textbox will scroll so that the line I am editing is the last line displayed in the textbox.  That is really annoying when I still need to read the following few lines.
#I keep getting undesired scrolling in the edit textbox if I move the mouse quickly (eg. to move it out of the way, to click preview, or to move the caret).  Thankfully, the editing caret stays in the same place, but the textbox scrolls by a few lines so that I can no longer see the caret.
Obviously, this behavoir could be unrelated to the IE8 upgrade, but it only started happening after the upgrade.  It would be good to know that I'm not the only one experiencing these kinds of problems.  Any help would be appreciated, but please no "use Firefox/Opera", "switch to Mac/Linux" or "reinstall Windows" suggestions, thank you.  [[User:Astronaut|Astronaut]] ([[User talk:Astronaut|talk]]) 18:19, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

:What do you want us to say ''other'' than "get a [[firefox|proper browser]]"??  These sound just like the sort of quirks and 'features' of Internet Explorer that piss so many people off with it.  There hasn't been a change to the MediaWiki software running WMF wikis for weeks now; the only thing that's changed is your browser. If you'd raised these issues with Firefox, I'd say to go over to Mozilla's bugzilla, and in all likelihood they'd be fixed in good time.  But oh wait, Microsoft doesn't have anywhere for users to file complaints in an organised way.... {{mono|:D}} [[User:Happy-melon|<b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b>]] 18:28, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

::Well, I sort of expected a "We know IE is crap, but have you tried setting the xyz option in Advanced Options" or maybe a "Since IE8 is now (supposedly) standards compliant, we are working on removing some of the IE-specific kludges we had to put in the Media Wiki software".  Trouble is, the standard response from too many people seems to be "get Firefox".  And yes, I would like to take it to Microsoft's equivalent of Bugzilla but as you correctly pointed out they don't have one.  I'm not looking for you to fix the problems with my computer, however, I am trying to let someone know of a potential problem that could affect high percentage of Wikipedia editors.  [[User:Astronaut|Astronaut]] ([[User talk:Astronaut|talk]]) 19:20, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

:::You have got a point with the IEfixes; maybe try editing without javascript and see if any of the problems go away?  Other than that, and given that IE8 is pretty new, there aren't any fixes specifically designed for it.  I hope it fixes some of the more egregious IE7 bugs to compensate for this whole new raft of errors... <Tt>:D</tt> [[User:Happy-melon|<b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b>]] 19:32, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

::::I am curious about these supposed bugs in IE7.  Apart from not being able to use some of the flashier Wiki gadgets due to deficiencies in IE7, I haven't experienced any unexpected behavoir while editing or simply surfing the internet in over a year of using it.  [[User:Astronaut|Astronaut]] ([[User talk:Astronaut|talk]]) 20:02, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

:::::That's because we web developers have been bending over backwards to support IE for all these years. —[[User:Remember the dot|Remember the dot]] <sup>([[User talk:Remember the dot|talk]])</sup> 01:07, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

::::::I can confirm the behaviour of IE8 as observed by Astronaut. After the admirable fix by The DJ, which allowed [[WP:POPUPS]] to work in IE8 in strict mode, IE8's scrolling behaviour in Wikipedia edit boxes is highly erratic. Aside: I find the attitude towards IE users shown above inconsiderate and counterproductive. -- [[User:Michael Bednarek|Michael Bednarek]] ([[User talk:Michael Bednarek|talk]]) 06:35, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

:::::::It wasn't my intention to contemn IE ''users'', although my disdain for the browser itself knows no bounds.  As RTD notes, web developers have for many years (and it appears, will for many years still) going far out of their way to hide as much of IE's faults from its innocent users.  IE's reputation for brokenness is well-deserved; it seems that IE8 - heralded by Microsoft as finally being a standards-compliant browser - is no different.  Sooner or later, we'll identify exactly what problems can be fixed by web developers, with JavaScript, wierd conditional hacks, whatever, and fix them; and even further down the line Microsoft will bring out an IE9 which might fix some of these issues in core (although in all likelihood introducing a host of new ones).  My comment is essentially that: we have no IE8fixes as yet, so there is nothing I could recommend to fix these particular issues.  But there's a world of difference between bitching about IE being broken, and in abandoning it for that reason. We may do the former, but we'll certainly not do the latter.  Not while it remains the world's most popular web browser, anyway. [[User:Happy-melon|<b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b>]] 07:57, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm almost certain that this is caused by fixIEScroll in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]. Please test disabling Javascript when you visit wikipedia. If that fixes it, then I'm relatively sure that it is the cause. Then I only need to find a way to limit this Javascript to Pre 8.... —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 09:36, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

:@Happy-melon: Thank you for distinguishing between IE users and the product. I have tested FF (3.0.10 & 3.5b4) and it doesn't suit my habits as a quotidian browser (unintuitive tab switching, non-sizeable dialogues, plugin-hell, no support for Table Data Control (I know that no support for ActiveX is considered a plus, but in the Real World™ … )).
:@The DJ: After disabling Javascript (or Active Scripting as IE calls it) the above described symptoms still exist. The most common symptom is that starting to type somewhere in the editing window will scroll the text in one big jump so that the cursor is now in the bottom row of the editing window. At other times the text scrolls one line further down with each character typed, until it stops scrolling when it has reached the bottom line, or sometimes it stops at the fourth-last line. I'm not reporting this with an expectation of it getting fixed, only as tidbit for the terminally curious. -- [[User:Michael Bednarek|Michael Bednarek]] ([[User talk:Michael Bednarek|talk]]) 13:15, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
::Sounds like [http://www.eggheadcafe.com/software/aspnet/34229693/ie8--textarea-scrolling.aspx this bug]. Now we need to work around it —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 14:30, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Try adding
<syntaxhighlight lang="css">
#wpTextbox1 {
width: 500px !important;
}
</syntaxhighlight>
to [[Special:MyPage/monobook.css]].. Perhaps that will help... —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 14:41, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
::::That didn't help, but working on the guy's diagnosis at eggheadcafe and looking at the HTML code, particularly
 <textarea name="wpTextbox1" id="wpTextbox1" cols="80"
, narrowing the browser window to about 80 columns did work. That's (almost) good enough for me. Thanks. [[User:Michael Bednarek|Michael Bednarek]] ([[User talk:Michael Bednarek|talk]]) 15:10, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::The editbox width can be set in your preferences. <span style="font-family:Broadway;">[[User:Mr.Z-man|Mr.]][[User talk:Mr.Z-man|'''''Z-'''man'']]</span> 15:35, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
::::::[http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/iewebdevelopment/thread/624f108e-82d8-4ed5-8561-bc4af6df2c7e] OK, this might be an idea. Try setting your columns to "100" in the editing tab of your [[Special:Preferences]]. —[[User:TheDJ|Th<span style="color: green">e</span>DJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 17:58, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::::After setting the columns to "100" in my preferences, I could not detect any marked improvement. After playing around with various settings, I arrived now at a preferences setting of "132" {{mono|:-)}} —anything >100<200 would do— and a width of my editing window of 900px, which accommodates 111 characters; this gives a relatively stable scrolling behaviour. By relatively I mean that erratic scrolling occurs only about 50% of the time. The discussions you pointed to above seem to me to indicate that this is a fundamental problem of IE8 and I suspect there's not much that can be done about it, but I may of course underestimate your ingenuity. -- [[User:Michael Bednarek|Michael Bednarek]] ([[User talk:Michael Bednarek|talk]]) 10:12, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:I have raised the issue with Microsoft's technical support.  Maybe they will get back to me with something or send out another update/patch.  I'm still waiting for a reply - hopefully something along the lines of "Congratulations, you have found a genuine bug. Here's your bug ref. number" - but it could take them months, so I'm not holding my breath.  [[User:Astronaut|Astronaut]] ([[User talk:Astronaut|talk]]) 13:30, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
::Would you mind leaving a note on my talk page if/when you hear something? I would like to take this page (VPT) off my watch list. Thanks. -- [[User:Michael Bednarek|Michael Bednarek]] ([[User talk:Michael Bednarek|talk]]) 13:41, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:::More info/update [[Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 61#Weird behavior when editing (part 2)]]  [[User:Astronaut|Astronaut]] ([[User talk:Astronaut|talk]]) 17:43, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

== Usage of <nowiki> {{PAGENAME}} </nowiki> in a template ==

If article names consist of multiple words, is there then a parameter to refer <nowiki> {{PAGENAME}} </nowiki> only to the second or third of these words? <div style="color:darkgreen;"> ~~ [[User:Phoe|<span style="color:darkgreen;">Phoe</span>]] <sub> [[User talk:Phoe|<span style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkgreen;">talk</span>]] </sub> ~~ 11:11, 19 May 2009 (UTC) </div>
: No. If the words are separated by slashes (i.e., if they are subpages) then you can split them with the #titleparts parser function, and you can theoretically try to use the [[:Category:string manipulation templates|string manipulation templates]] to split it at the spaces, and if you have a limited list of words you expect then you do some tricks as well.<br>What is it you are trying to do? [[User talk:Amalthea|<span style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant:small-caps;color:#823824;font-weight:normal">Amalthea</span>]] 11:20, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
::I would like to insert a #switch in a table, based on a disambiguator. Say I have articles about athletes, then the heading of a table's column should change depending the occupation given in the article's name. Originally I had tried to use  <nowiki> {{#switch:{{PAGENAME}} | (footballer) = football | (basketballer) = basketball | #default = No athlete }} </nowiki> for this, however, as PAGENAME obviously requires the full article name, it didn't work. <div style="color:darkgreen;"> ~~ [[User:Phoe|<span style="color:darkgreen;">Phoe</span>]] <sub> [[User talk:Phoe|<span style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkgreen;">talk</span>]] </sub> ~~ 12:18, 19 May 2009 (UTC) </div>
::: Which template exactly? If it's an infobox template, they usually get the name without the qualifier already, so that you can compare <nowiki>{{#ifeq:{{{name}}} (qualifier)|{{PAGENAME}}|does end with (qualifier)|does not}}</nowiki>.<br>Two templates that do this and similar things, with somewhat different methods, are {{tl|Taxobox name}} and {{tl|italictitle}}. There also is {{tl|str endswith}} for generic input, but for your case it could be written a fair bit more efficient.<br>''However'': For athletes, the page title does not usually have any qualifier, right? So an automated function like that would only match on a minority of all athlete bios.<br>If the template you have in mind is {{tl|Infobox Athlete}}, then it already has a {{para|sports}} parameter that could be used to switch, I assume?<br>[[User talk:Amalthea|<span style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant:small-caps;color:#823824;font-weight:normal">Amalthea</span>]] 12:55, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
::::Sorry, I forgot to mention that I have this rather not intended for Wikipedia, but mainly for my own PC, and I should have also accentuated that athletes was merely an example as I want use such switches preferably in various topics. However I will take a look at your suggestions and will check if I can adapt those to my purposes. In any case thanks for your efforts. <div style="color:darkgreen;"> ~~ [[User:Phoe|<span style="color:darkgreen;">Phoe</span>]] <sub> [[User talk:Phoe|<span style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkgreen;">talk</span>]] </sub> ~~ 16:08, 19 May 2009 (UTC) </div>
::::: Gnah. On your private wiki you can simply install [[:mw:Extension:StringFunctions]] and parse them as you please. [[User talk:Amalthea|<span style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant:small-caps;color:#823824;font-weight:normal">Amalthea</span>]] 16:14, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::: Uh, believe me or not, I had overseen this one ... and of course #explode was the key. Thanks for the link. <div style="color:darkgreen;"> ~~ [[User:Phoe|<span style="color:darkgreen;">Phoe</span>]] <sub> [[User talk:Phoe|<span style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkgreen;">talk</span>]] </sub> ~~ 17:30, 19 May 2009 (UTC) </div>
== Left period off new article name ending in "Inc" ==

{{Resolved|1=&nbsp;–&nbsp;[[User:Ukexpat|ukexpat]] ([[User talk:Ukexpat|talk]]) 20:55, 20 May 2009 (UTC)}}
I didn't start a new article because when I went back and fixed the disambiguation page after seeing what I had done, the link was blue.

[[Nathan Manufacturing, Inc]] and [[Nathan Manufacturing, Inc.]] both have me in the history as the creator, but I only created the first one. They are only redirects because whoever wrote about the company just made it a section of an existing article (surprisingly, apparently only [[Nathan-AirChime Ltd.]] had redirected), though maybe I can change that someday. But it's an interesting feature if it really exists.[[User:Vchimpanzee|<span style="color:Green;">Vchimpanzee</span>]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[User talk:Vchimpanzee|<span style="color: orange"> talk</span>]]&nbsp;'''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Vchimpanzee|<span style="color: purple">contributions</span>]]&nbsp;'''·''' 18:38, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

:I guess you forgot something from last year. In November 2008 your account created [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nathan_Manufacturing,_Inc.&diff=prev&oldid=254079906] a redirect at [[Nathan Manufacturing, Inc.]] with a period, and added a link to it to [[Nathan]].[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nathan&diff=prev&oldid=254080464] Somebody else removed it in January.[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nathan&diff=262013766&oldid=261979277] Today you created [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nathan_Manufacturing,_Inc&diff=prev&oldid=290139461] another redirect at [[Nathan Manufacturing, Inc]] without a period, and added a link to it to [[Nathan]].[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nathan&diff=prev&oldid=290139235] You then changed [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nathan&diff=next&oldid=290139235] the link on [[Nathan]] to be with period so it matched the 2008 redirect instead of the new. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 23:13, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

::On the assumption that all those redirects should point to the same section of the article, I edited two of them to redirect to [[Train horn#AirChime, Ltd.]].&nbsp;–&nbsp;[[User:Ukexpat|ukexpat]] ([[User talk:Ukexpat|talk]]) 03:33, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

== Auto archiving problem ==

{{Resolved|1=&nbsp;–&nbsp;[[User:Ukexpat|ukexpat]] ([[User talk:Ukexpat|talk]]) 20:55, 20 May 2009 (UTC)}}
Hello, I am trying to get [[User:Miszabot|Miszabot]] to archive my talk page automatically. I believe I have inserted the code correctly [[User_talk:dougofborg|there]], and have waited the 24 hrs to make sure the bot has 'run' a cycle. Did I do something wrong? (Is this the wrong place to ask?) Thanks for your help [[User:Dougofborg|Dougofborg]]<sup>[[User_talk:Dougofborg|(talk)]]</sup> 20:19, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
: Miszabot is pretty particular about the config format. I wouldn't be surprised if {{diff2|290165386|the capitalization of your username}} was enough to make him ignore it. [[User talk:Amalthea|<span style="font-family:Verdana;font-variant:small-caps;color:#823824;font-weight:normal">Amalthea</span>]] 20:41, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
::Silly bot... Thanks for the help, I'll report back tomorrow [[User:Dougofborg|Dougofborg]]<sup>[[User_talk:Dougofborg|(talk)]]</sup> 20:46, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
:::I seem to recall there's also a minimum number of threads parameter, which defaults to 5. Since you have 5 threads at present, the bot might leave your talk unchanged. I'll add a thread as a way of testing. --[[User:AndrewHowse|AndrewHowse]] ([[User talk:AndrewHowse|talk]]) 15:26, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
::::Thanks, appreciated [[User:Dougofborg|Dougofborg]]<sup>[[User_talk:Dougofborg|(talk)]]</sup> 15:41, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

== google can't find them ==

hi together, i have asked here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Computing#google_can.27t_find_her but they had no idea. So again: Why google doesn't index the articles [[Daniel Schuhmacher]] and  [[Annemarie Eilfeld]]? I guess, the template is not OK.  Regards [[Special:Contributions/78.48.76.36|78.48.76.36]] ([[User talk:78.48.76.36|talk]]) 14:31, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

:It can take days or weeks for Google to index new Wikipedia articles; we have no control over this. ---'''''—&nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]<span style="color:darkblue">&nbsp;</span>'''''<sup>[[User talk:Gadget850|''talk'']]</sup> 14:54, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

::Especially since both pages existed as redirects until a few days ago. I suspect that Google does not index redirect pages, thus it may take a bit longer for these to index. ---'''''—&nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]<span style="color:darkblue">&nbsp;</span>'''''<sup>[[User talk:Gadget850|''talk'']]</sup> 15:01, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

:::sigh :-). Well, let's give them some more days.. but I don't believe google will find them. Regards [[Special:Contributions/78.48.76.36|78.48.76.36]] ([[User talk:78.48.76.36|talk]]) 15:32, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Google certainly indexes redirect pages, as shown by [http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=%22redirected+from%22+site%3Aen.wikipedia.org&meta=&aq=o&oq= this search results page]. Google sometimes refuses to index Wikipedia pages for no apparent reason; see [[Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 36#Searching for discographies from Google, on Wikipedia, does not return correct articles?|this archived thread]]. '''[[User:Graham87|Graham]]'''[[User talk:Graham87|<span style="color:green;">87</span>]] 03:19, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

::::I'm just going to go with "I don't know" here. I dealing with a user page that was created yesterday and is now indexed, but the two articles in question here still don't show in Google. ---'''''—&nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]<span style="color:darkblue">&nbsp;</span>'''''<sup>[[User talk:Gadget850|''talk'']]</sup> 15:30, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Template:Spoken Wikipedia boilerplate ==

{{Resolved|1=&nbsp;–&nbsp;[[User:Ukexpat|ukexpat]] ([[User talk:Ukexpat|talk]]) 21:02, 20 May 2009 (UTC)}}
{{t1|Spoken Wikipedia boilerplate}} is editprotected. Please replace the {{tl|click}} template with imagemap functionality. See [[Template talk:Spoken Wikipedia boilerplate#Imagemap]]. --[[User:Quest for Truth|Quest for Truth]] ([[User talk:Quest for Truth|talk]]) 19:16, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
:{{done}}, with {{para|link}} in the image tag rather than imagemap (which is for complicated link structures). In future, you can use the {{tlx|editprotected}} template to draw administrators' attention to such edits. [[User:Happy-melon|<b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b>]] 19:29, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

== Search Engine Problem ==

Using the wikipedia search engine for 'centrifugal force' sometimes leads straight to the 'centrifugal force' article. But mostly it will lead to a branch article entitled centrifugal force (rotating frames of reference). Is there anybody who knows how to fix this problem? [[User:David Tombe|David Tombe]] ([[User talk:David Tombe|talk]]) 07:19, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

:[[Centrifugal Force]] with capital F was redirecting to [[Centrifugal force (rotating reference frame)]] because of an old page move. I have changed the target to [[Centrifugal force]]. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 08:20, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

PrimeHunter, Thank you very much for your help. [[User:David Tombe|David Tombe]] ([[User talk:David Tombe|talk]]) 12:50, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Too small formulas ==

Recently, I noticed that some of the formulas changed size for me.  In particular simple formulas with only a subscript or only a superscript got smaller.  I heard that equations are displayed differently depending on settings.  Is there a way that I can fix the equations so that they display the correct size.  Barring that what settings do I need to change. [[User:TStein|TStein]] ([[User talk:TStein|talk]]) 18:19, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
:See [[Special:Preferences]] <span style="border:2px outset #cccccc;background-color:#cccccc;padding:2px;">Math</span> tab. For example, <tt><nowiki><math>2^2</math></nowiki></tt> with ''"HTML if very simple or else PNG"'' will render as <tt><nowiki><span class="texhtml">2<sup>2</sup></span></nowiki></tt> while with ''"Always render PNG"'' it will render as this image: http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/2/6/3/2634e97d99e0957e8bb021f4081e90d4.png -> <math>2^2</math> ... --[[User:Splarka|Splarka]] ([[User_talk:Splarka|rant]]) 07:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== Strange math bug ==

In [[Particle physics and representation theory]], there's a parsing error
 Failed to parse (&lt;math_output_error&gt;): \{g|p_0\rangle|g\in G\}.
in the math formula on the page, which I copy here (don't know if it will work):
::<math>\{g|p_0\rangle|g\in G\}.</math>
I don't know what's wrong with the formula, but fine. Here's the weird part. When I view the exact same version of the page through the permanent link to that version, [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Particle_physics_and_representation_theory&direction=next&oldid=271789712 here], or the difference between that version and the previous version [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Particle_physics_and_representation_theory&diff=288246877&oldid=271789712 here], it parses correctly! It also parses correctly when I view the exact same page in "Edit --> Preview" mode. Do other people reproduce this? Any ideas why this would happen or how to fix it? Thanks!! :-) --[[User:Sbyrnes321|Steve]] ([[User talk:Sbyrnes321|talk]]) 16:49, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
: I purged the page and the problem went away for me. Do you still see it? [[User_talk:Gimmetrow|''Gimmetrow'']] 17:05, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
:: I'd guess there is a problem with the math parsing on one of the servers; which caused it to parse incorrectly.  Previewing or purging would likely hit a different server, that doesn't have the problem. -[[User:Sanbeg|Steve Sanbeg]] ([[User talk:Sanbeg|talk]]) 18:23, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Yes Gimmetrow, the problem has gone away for me too, thanks! --[[User:Sbyrnes321|Steve]] ([[User talk:Sbyrnes321|talk]]) 22:26, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== So... ==

Happy to see that the wiki is editable again... any ideas as to why that happened? –[[User:Drilnoth|Drilnoth]] ([[User talk:Drilnoth|T]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Drilnoth|C]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[Special:Log/Drilnoth|L]]) 21:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
:Well, it gave me time to Google "<code>1205: Lock wait timeout exceeded; Try restarting transaction (10.0.6.22)</code>" &ndash; I don't know if [[Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#WTF?]] (further up this page) was caused by anything similar ... [[User:Cycle~|Cycle~]] ([[User talk:Cycle~|talk]]) 21:24, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
::Hmm... maybe. I think that it was about 7 minutes this time, too. –[[User:Drilnoth|Drilnoth]] ([[User talk:Drilnoth|T]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Drilnoth|C]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[Special:Log/Drilnoth|L]]) 21:31, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

== SQL error ==

When trying to edit the page [[:Template:@@]] I get the following error:

 A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last attempted database query was:
 
    (SQL query hidden)
 
 from within function "RecentChange::save". MySQL returned error "1205: Lock wait timeout exceeded; Try restarting transaction (10.0.6.22)".

Probably it is my fault (a rather weird wikilink) but I am nowunable to fix it. Could someone please help ?  Thanks... --[[User:Jorge Stolfi|Jorge Stolfi]] ([[User talk:Jorge Stolfi|talk]]) 04:47, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
* '''Seems to be working now'''. Thanks. --[[User:Jorge Stolfi|Jorge Stolfi]] ([[User talk:Jorge Stolfi|talk]]) 04:59, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
== &lt;ref> and subst: ==

I don't know whether this is a bug with me or a bug with wikipedia (and if it's with wikipedia then whether it's with &lt;ref> or with &#x7b;{subst) but there's definitely a bug in here somewhere.

Here's the test case code which I entered, escaped so you can see it:

:<code>Today is &#x7b;{subst:today}}</code>
:<code>&lt;ref group="refexample">Today is &#x7b;{subst:today}}&lt;/ref></code>
:<code>&#x7b;{reflist|group="refexample"}}</code>

Here's the output:
:Today is {{date|17 May 2009|dmy}}
:<ref group="refexample">Today is {{subst:today}}</ref>
{{reflist|group="refexample"}}

Note how the <nowiki>{{subst:today}}</nowiki> fails to substitute in the references list. So, what gives?

--[[User:ClickRick|ClickRick]] ([[User talk:ClickRick|talk]]) 23:32, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

:I have filed this as [[bugzilla:18825]]. &mdash;&nbsp;Carl <small>([[User:CBM|CBM]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:CBM|talk]])</small> 23:47, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

::Thanks - I'll bookmark that and follow it there.
::--[[User:ClickRick|ClickRick]] ([[User talk:ClickRick|talk]]) 23:51, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

:::Which turns out to be [[bugzilla:2700]]. With a title like "Pre-save transform skips extensions using wikitext (gallery, references, footnotes, Cite, pipe trick, subst, signatures)", no wonder I couldn't find it. &mdash;&nbsp;Carl <small>([[User:CBM|CBM]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:CBM|talk]])</small> 23:59, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

::::Indeed. Makes me feel better about not finding it too.
::::Given the nature and age of that bug, is it worth adding a ''Known bugs'' section to the documentation of the affected areas, such as [[WP:Subst]], to explain the restriction, or at least to link to the bug report?
::::--[[User:ClickRick|ClickRick]] ([[User talk:ClickRick|talk]]) 00:06, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

::::: See [[Wikipedia:FN#Known_bugs]]. [[User_talk:Gimmetrow|''Gimmetrow'']] 00:09, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

:::::: Yes, that's exactly what I meant. Should something similar go in other places as well?
:::::: --[[User:ClickRick|ClickRick]] ([[User talk:ClickRick|talk]]) 11:02, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

=== Workaround ===
{{Resolved|1=&nbsp;–&nbsp;[[User:Ukexpat|ukexpat]] ([[User talk:Ukexpat|talk]]) 21:02, 20 May 2009 (UTC)}}
If you use the following syntax, all is well.
:<nowiki>Today is {{#tag:ref|{{subst:today}}}}</nowiki>
The #tag parserfunction acts like a pair of ref tags here, but the content is actually parsed. &mdash;&nbsp;Carl <small>([[User:CBM|CBM]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:CBM|talk]])</small> 00:11, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

: Great - thanks for that.
: --[[User:ClickRick|ClickRick]] ([[User talk:ClickRick|talk]]) 11:02, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
:: Where is the documentation on the #tag function? ("Search" in various namespaces didn't help...) --[[User:Jorge Stolfi|Jorge Stolfi]] ([[User talk:Jorge Stolfi|talk]]) 05:22, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
:::[[mw:Help:Magic words#Miscellaneous]] <span style="font-family:Broadway;">[[User:Mr.Z-man|Mr.]][[User talk:Mr.Z-man|'''''Z-'''man'']]</span> 06:32, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

=== Is it possible to give it a name? ===
Extending the above query: How can I get a template to expand the contents and the name of <nowiki><ref name="{{{2}}}">{{{1}}}</ref></nowiki>? --[[User:Jorge Stolfi|Jorge Stolfi]] ([[User talk:Jorge Stolfi|talk]]) 04:42, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
* Found the answer (I Think): <nowiki>{{#tag:ref|{{{1}}}|name={{{2|default}}}}}</nowiki>
** ... but a little detail was missing: in <nowiki><ref name="NNN"></nowiki>, the NNN cannot be just digits 8-( --[[User:Jorge Stolfi|Jorge Stolfi]] ([[User talk:Jorge Stolfi|talk]]) 03:28, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

=== Is it possible to suppress/modify the ref link? ===
Is it possible to suppress the link generated by <nowiki><ref>STUFF</ref></nowiki> (that is, the <sup><nowiki>[</nowiki>[[Integer|12]]<nowiki>]</nowiki></sup> marker) without supressing the STUFF entry in the <nowiki>{{Reflist}}</nowiki>?  Or to replace the number within the brackets by something else?  --[[User:Jorge Stolfi|Jorge Stolfi]] ([[User talk:Jorge Stolfi|talk]]) 05:45, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
: No. You could hide the whole reference with inline CSS, but then you'll end up with a backlink from the References section that goes nowhere. Which, BTW, is why I think {{tl|source list}} is a bad idea. [[User:Anomie|Anomie]][[User talk:Anomie|⚔]] 10:54, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

== Judas Iscariot appliance error ==

Trying to view the article [[Judas Iscariot]], I receive "Appliance Error (internal_error)" using IE8/XP. All other articles appear fine - [[Judas]] for example displays no problem. [[User:XLerate|XLerate]] ([[User talk:XLerate|talk]]) 02:08, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

:I'm getting Database query errors while trying to edit [[Lifeboat (film)]]. I'm aqlso having difficulty trying to upload images on Commons. <span style="white-space:nowrap;"><b><i>[[User:Ed Fitzgerald|Ed Fitzgerald]]</i> <sub>[[User talk:Ed Fitzgerald|t]] / [[Special:Contributions/Ed Fitzgerald|c]]</sub></b></span> 04:39, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

::Judas Iscariot appears fine now thanks. [[User:XLerate|XLerate]] ([[User talk:XLerate|talk]]) 11:32, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

== Weird display ==

Looking at [[Help:Special pages]] in Firefox, I'm seeing strange codes before the section titles (in the ToC as well). Anyone else seeing this? Any ideas why? --[[User:Kotniski|Kotniski]] ([[User talk:Kotniski|talk]]) 10:47, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:Well, resolved it by commenting out the transclusion of <nowiki>{{Special:Newpages/4}}</nowiki>. Still don't know what was going on though.--[[User:Kotniski|Kotniski]] ([[User talk:Kotniski|talk]]) 11:07, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:: Sounds like {{phab|18129}}. [[User:Anomie|Anomie]][[User talk:Anomie|⚔]] 12:04, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Seems so, thanks.--[[User:Kotniski|Kotniski]] ([[User talk:Kotniski|talk]]) 12:07, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

== which planned feature was that again? ==

hello,
some months ago, a Wikimedia announcement talked about planned implementation of a feature where display of video start points/images/other media could be triggered by text links, quite similar to those green links in http://proteopedia.org .

As I can't find the proposal anymore, can you please point me to it or new information about it? --[[User:Ayacop|Ayacop]] ([[User talk:Ayacop|talk]]) 17:43, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

== Constant server hangups ==

About half of my operations on Wikipedia begin normally but hang indefinitely at some random moment. There are no error messages; the cursor just keeps spinning forver, as if the server had just "forgot" about a request that it just accepted.  I then have to abort the operation and retry.  The retry almost always work fine, but sometimes it hangs again, at a different point along the transaction.<br/> I cannot see any definite pattern, but it seems . It is not general slowness: the transactions that do not hang usually complete at the normal speed.  These hang-ups happens while reading pages, editing and saving, history and watchlist lookup.  It started one or two weeks ago and happens at at all hours of the day. It happens with Firefox and Epiphany. <br/>I cannot exclude a local or network problem, but this behavior does not seem to occur when I access any other site. At first I assumed that it was due to the WP dump in progress, but the dump is over (so it has been said) and the hang-ups are still there.<br/> Is this happening to anyone else? Where  --[[User:Jorge Stolfi|Jorge Stolfi]] ([[User talk:Jorge Stolfi|talk]]) 02:45, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

== Archive policy ==

Can I put a notice that  the archive policy applied at [[Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28miscellaneous%29#Miscellaneous_archive]] also applies here? Currently, there does not seem to be a clear policy. If I don't get any objections within a week, I'll do it. [[User:JesseW|JesseW]] 04:55, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

== Part of page lost ==

The section [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village%20pump%20%28technical%29&oldid=21359598#Unwatch_from_watchlist Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Unwatch from watchlist] has a stray signature of mine, which was part of a discussion about Javascript and diffs. Somehow part of the page seems to have been lost and the sections ended up being merged. --[[User:CesarB|cesarb]] 21:27, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

== Rename Article ==

What's the best way to change/edit the name of an article I created? I thought I would solve the problem of a non-uniquely named poet by titling the article using the middle name. This creates more confusion, so I'll learn how to create a disambiguation page. Meanwhile, taking baby steps, I need to rename the article from Tom Poeller Mandel to, simply, Tom Mandel, the non-unique name. Many thanks, Gaelyn

:Click on the "move" tab at the top of the article page.  This moves the article contents and history to a new name and leaves a redirect in place of the old title.  [[User:EncMstr|EncMstr]] 22:36, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

== Why Not Archived If There's No Time Stamp? ==

Why are sections not archived by Werdnabot if there's no time stamp?[[User:100110100|100110100]] 09:07, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
:Because Werdnabot doesn't know how old the section is unless it has a timestamp. &mdash; '''[[User:Werdna|Werdna]]''' ''[[User talk:Werdna|talk]]'' ''[[User talk:Werdna/Review|criticism]]'' 09:11, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
::This is only an issue if neither the question nor the response have timestamps (right?).  I imagine it's pretty common for questions not to have one, but responses should always be signed and timestamped so I'd think this would very rarely come up. -- [[user:Rick Block|Rick Block]] <small>([[user talk:Rick Block|talk]])</small> 16:37, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
:::Why can't Werdnabot check the page history, then?
:::By the way, take a look at [[User talk:Angie Y.]]. I tried to get this page Werdabot-archived, but it doesn't seem to be working, even on sections that are timestamped. ~[[User:INVERTED|iNVERTED | Rob]] ([[User talk:INVERTED|Talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/INVERTED|Contribs]]) 20:58, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

== Refraction of the light ==

''Moved to [[Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Refraction of the light|project page]]'' - 04:10, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

== Trouble with table ==

I was hoping someone could take a look at the table in [[Visible spectrum#Spectral colors]] and let me know why the final row "red" doesn't show up. Thanks! -[[User:AED|AED]] 22:34, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
:The template it was using only allowed a maximum of 5 items. I've changed it to allow 6 to make the red show up. [[User:Tra|Tra]] [[User:Tra/MyComments|(Talk)]] 23:33, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
::Much obliged! -[[User:AED|AED]] 23:43, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

== Head section ==

Tips given here should include :
*Always tell what browser you use when your question is about what you see on your screen. This information shall improve help. People here are used to some details or bugs, or are able to reproduce your case in some of the most popular browsers. --[[User:82.227.17.30|82.227.17.30]] 19:23, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

== "Disabled to edits???" from [[Talk:Michael Richards#Disabled to edits]] ==

Why does the page say what it says at the top and yet [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=Curtisaallen this] clearly newly registered user had his way with the article? [[User:BabuBhatt|BabuBhatt]] 15:52, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
:It is possible that the [[User:Curtisaallen]] account was registered some time ago but never utilized till today. When such accounts are ''layed'' away for nefarious purposes they are usually known as ''sleeper'' account on Wikipedia. ''([[User_talk:Netscott|→]][[User:Netscott|<span style='background: white; color: grey'>Netscott</span>]])'' 16:01, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
::'''What would it require for the program to be changed so that users with no edits so far would be treated as if they were brand-new? [[User:Wahkeenah|Wahkeenah]] 16:07, 22 November 2006 (UTC)'''
:::Hmm, that's not a bad idea. My recommendation is to post it to: [[Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)]]. ''([[User_talk:Netscott|→]][[User:Netscott|<span style='background: white; color: grey'>Netscott</span>]])'' 16:11, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[[User:Wahkeenah|Wahkeenah]] 16:15, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

== Redirects ==

Try as I might, I can't figure out how to do simple coding, here, and redirects are no exception.  I've read the pages on redirects, thoroughly, but to no avail.  What I'm trying to do is redirect [[Meridian Township]] to [[Meridian charter Township, MI]].  Help! --[[User:Criticalthinker|Criticalthinker]] 03:26, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
: Done. Make sure you type <code><nowiki>#REDIRECT [[Meridian Charter Township, Michigan]]</nowiki></code> in exactly one line. Although you probably wanted to put this on [[WP:VPT]], not its talk page... [[User:Titoxd|Tito]][[Wikipedia:Esperanza |<span style="color:#008000;">xd</span>]]<sup>([[User talk:Titoxd|?!?]])</sup> 03:30, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
:: But, how does one do this?  I'm still confused.--[[User:Criticalthinker|Criticalthinker]] 03:57, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

:::Click [[Meridian Township]] (you'll be redirected to [[Meridian Charter Township, Michigan]]).  At the very top, under the title, the words "Redirected from ..." appear, with a link that will actually take you to [[Meridian Township]] (without being redirected).  Click this link and then "edit this page".  This page's contents are a single line starting with <code>#REDIRECT</code>, as indicated above.  To make another one of these, edit the article name you want to be a redirect and add just one line, like the one in [[Meridian Township]]. -- [[user:Rick Block|Rick Block]] <small>([[user talk:Rick Block|talk]])</small> 02:20, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

== Semi-protection recommended for this page ==

I have to suggest semi-protecting this article.  We have a open-proxy or sock puppet user that is vandalizing this article and other one (this message is posted there as well).  The edits include ones like [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28technical%29&diff=98607998&oldid=98606794 02:57, January 5, 2007 (Good-bye clowns: U.S Feds stop propagandizing on Wikipedia. You're not wanted here. half trillion $ annual budget can't defend us from 19 guys with box-cutters 'cause you waste too much time here)].  These posts are always identical.  I suspect it may be a bot that moves onto a new IP everytime it is blocked. <!--[[User:Where/sigContract]];Will-->[[User:Will Pittenger|Will]] <small>([[User talk:Will Pittenger|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Will Pittenger|contribs]])</small><!--ESC:Will Pittenger--> 09:11, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
:Absolutely disagree.  Anons may have legitimate technical questions that they need to ask.  Occasional reverts are no problem. —[[User:Simetrical|Simetrical]] ([[User talk:Simetrical|talk]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Simetrical|contribs]]) 19:58, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

When I posted that, the user was posting every few minutes.  As soon as they found their text had been reverted, it was back.  It took longer when they found they had been blocked, but only a couple of hours.  So it would have been more than a "occasional revert". <!--[[User:Where/sigContract]];Will-->[[User:Will Pittenger|Will]] <small>([[User talk:Will Pittenger|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Will Pittenger|contribs]])</small><!--ESC:Will Pittenger--> 00:28, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

== Extremely slow tools.wikimedia.de ==

I find that any link to tools.wikimedia.de has an extremely slow response time, I think minutes to tens of minutes. (I haven't measured it lately; it takes too long to bother waiting.) This didn't matter so much when it was just Kate's tool, but now the geographic coordinate links have moved to t.w.d as well.

It seems to me that others must be getting reasonable response times, or no one would have accepted the migration. Can anyone explain why t.w.d is responding so slowly for me?  I'm using Mozilla on Debian stable. I recall once long ago getting a reasonable response time from Kate's tool on t.w.d, when accessing it from Windows. --[[User:Trovatore|Trovatore]] 20:05, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
:Just a hunch: try disabling ipv6 in your browser (its in firefoxes about:config somewhere). [[User:Plugwash|Plugwash]] 02:37, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
::I can't find it in about:config (Mozilla 1.7.8). Thanks for the suggestion, though. Could you give me an idea why you think it might help? --[[User:Trovatore|Trovatore]] 06:00, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
:::I have found <code>network.dns.disableIPv6</code> in 1.7.13. But I don't think that's the problem, I have it set to false and I don't have problems with the toolserver. [[User talk:Tizio|Tizio]] 15:30, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

== Picture Placement ==

Hi, how is it I can choose where on the page I'm editing where the picture I want to add is placed? Whenever I try to place one, it always appears at the top of the text, not in the desired location. [[User:Cheeseah|Cheeseah]] ([[User talk:Cheeseah|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Cheeseah|contribs]]) 21:08, 19 March 2007 (UTC).<!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->

:You might want to take a look at [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style#Images]] and [[Wikipedia:Extended image syntax]]; [[Wikipedia:Picture tutorial]] might also help.  -- <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:15px;">[[User:John Broughton|John Broughton]] </span>  [[User talk:John Broughton |(♫♫)]] 00:32, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

== Request for direction. ==

What is the difference between this section of the Village pump and the MediaWiki space? I would like to have a discussion on managing conversation sprawl, but I would like to make sure that I am using the right channels for such a discussion. --[[User:Aarktica|Aarktica]] 13:04, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
:The MediaWiki talk namespace is for discussing a particular interface message (for instance, if you want to change the wording of the warning below the edit box); WP:VPT is for general technical comments, questions, and discussions (such as asking questions about how to achieve something complex in wikimarkup, asking about a particular sort of login problem, or wondering whether a particular [[WP:VPR|proposal]] is technically possible). --[[User:ais523|ais523]] 15:42, 27 April 2007 ([[User:ais523|U]][[User talk:ais523|T]][[Special:Contributions/Ais523|C]])
:: Thanks for the feedback. Just so that I understand, the proper course of action is WP:VPT -> WP:VPR -> MediaWiki ? --[[User:Aarktica|Aarktica]] 15:17, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
:::No. Pick the most applicable page, and expect to get an answer. If you don't, or if a knowledgeable editor suggests you post elsewhere, do so. The only reason to ''plan'' to go to multiple places is if you're checking about the technical aspects of a proposal before proposing it elsewhere.  -- <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:15px;">[[User:John Broughton|John Broughton]] </span>  [[User talk:John Broughton |(♫♫)]] 15:37, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

== Finding out if articles are watched ==

Adding this here as well since feedback at Help:Watching pages is slow:

From a maintenance/anti-vandalism point of view, it would be helpful to know how many people, if any, are watching a given article. Is there any way to ascertain this information? I can find nothing on [[Help:Watching pages]] suggesting it is. If there isn't, I think it should quickly be added as a feature so that editors can locate unwatched articles to help maintain the quality of the encyclopedia, as unwatched articles have little defense against drive-by vandalism.

Unregistered users should not be able to see this information as it would help vandals locate unwatched pages and make a mess of them. Only established (semi-protection criteria) users should be able to view this information. 

Hopefully those of you here will be able to give me a quick response. Thanks, [[User:Richard001|Richard001]] 00:15, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

:Already exists, but it requires [[Wikipedia:Administrators|admin status]] [[Special:Unwatchedpages]]. [[User:Dreftymac|dr.ef.tymac]] 00:20, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
::Thanks for your quick reply. Could you specify to what extent it exists for administrators? Can they tell who watches the page as well as how many?
::I think this needs to be extended to all users that have held an account for a few days. It's harmless to let people know how many are watching an article without specifying who they are, and helps people identify unwatched articles so they can better focus their efforts. There is the risk of higher vandalism from those few cunning vandals though, so I don't think it should be applied to non-account holders. Is there any harm you can think of in extending it to account holders? [[User:Richard001|Richard001]] 01:04, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
:::As far as I can tell, it lets admins know what the first 1000 unwatched pages in alphabetical order are, and not how many people are watching watched pages. (As it only goes up to 1000, it's kind-of useless; I wonder if this is a bug?) --[[User:ais523|ais523]] 12:50, 2 May 2007 ([[User:ais523|U]][[User talk:ais523|T]][[Special:Contributions/Ais523|C]])
::::Re extending this to all account holders: [[Wikipedia:Perennial proposals#Create a counter of people watching a page]]. -- <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:15px;">[[User:John Broughton|John Broughton]] </span>  [[User talk:John Broughton |(♫♫)]] 15:33, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
It does abruptly stop at 1000.  That means if an unwatched page is not in the early part of the alphabet, it's excluded. [[User:Michael Hardy|Michael Hardy]] ([[User talk:Michael Hardy|talk]]) 20:16, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

== [[WP:CSD]] template ==

Hey! When did we discuss, and agree, to change the CSD warning template from pink to white? And if we did not agree, can we change it back ASAP, please? --[[User:Anthony.bradbury|<b style="color:red;">Anthony.bradbury</b>]][[User talk:Anthony.bradbury|<sup style="color:black;">"talk"</sup>]] 17:35, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
:See [[WP:TS]]. --[[User:Golbez|Golbez]] 17:43, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

== Trouble with wikilink ==

I wanted to wikilink [[Joseph M. Scriven]] (there is an existing article on Wikipedia under that name) in this article [[He Is Beautiful]].  I was not able to get [[Joseph M. Scriven]] to be recognised as a link (in blue) until I copied the heading [[Joseph M. Scriven]] from the original article's heading and pasted that into the article [[He Is Beautiful]].  This does not make sense to me except for the fact that Joseph M. Scriven appears as Joseph M. Scriv-en in the wiki tab and address.  How could this happen and is it a common problem? Address will need fixing.</br>--[[User:Brenont|User:Brenont]] 19:35, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

:I have no idea what the problem was or why it occurred, but moving the page to its own apparent name appears to have solved the problem. [[User:Nihiltres|<span style="color:#275CA9;">Nihiltres</span>]]<sup>'''('''<span class="plainlinks">[[User talk:Nihiltres|<span style="color:#000;">t</span>]].[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?user=Nihiltres <span style="color:#000;">l</span>]</span>''')'''</sup> 20:12, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

::There is in fact a character in the middle of the old title; a soft hyphen. Software that makes use of them will not display them unless it needs to put a line break in the middle of the word, but you can see it if you copy and paste it into a more naive text editor like Notepad. It may be that the article was created not by typing the name in, but by pasting it from a word processor, or perhaps from an online article at a website that likes to right-justify its text and so uses hyphens to make them come out looking better. ''[[User:Csernica|TCC]]'' <small>[[User_talk:Csernica|(talk)]] [[Special:Contributions/Csernica|(contribs)]]</small> 20:54, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

:::(conflicted) I was going to say the same thing. I suspect that it was some other article that was created in that way, and someone later clicked a redlink there to create the [[Joseph M. Scriven]] article. [[User:Anomie|Anomie]] 21:17, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

== I can't use the buttons above ==

For some strange reason, I can't use the buttons that are above when editing on a page. I can't make the text bold, cursive, or sign my nickname, unless I do it by manually typing the script. This seems to be a problem on this computer, only. Does anyone know if I need to change something? When I move my cursor over the buttons, a textbox appears with the explanation for what it means, but I just can't click the damn thing! Ugh! -- [[User:Anittas]]  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|signed but undated]] comment was added at 17:31, 10 October 2007 (UTC)</small><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:What browser are you using? There's some code in place to fix problems with image transparency in Internet Explorer 5.5 and 6, and there were some reports that it interfered with the toolbar in those versions. I thought those problems were fixed, though; try [[Wikipedia:bypassing your cache|bypassing your cache]], and if the problem goes away, then that was the reason and the cache bypass will have applied the fix. --[[User:ais523|ais523]] 17:35, 10 October 2007 ([[User:ais523|U]][[User talk:ais523|T]][[Special:Contributions/Ais523|C]])
::Wee, now it works. Thanks! It seems that I was using IE6. I now installed 7 and everything is fine. :) --[[User:Anittas|Thus Spake Anittas]] 18:19, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

:::Yes, I thought we had that fixed for IE6...but in any case, IE7 will work a lot better for you with Wikipedia. It will actually load pages faster and in general work better than IE6. —[[User:Remember the dot|Remember the dot]] <sup>([[User talk:Remember the dot|talk]])</sup> 21:05, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

:::For the record, it turns out that we did have them fixed, but the script was improperly modified (without being tested) and it broke the editing toolbar again. —[[User:Remember the dot|Remember the dot]] <sup>([[User talk:Remember the dot|talk]])</sup> 00:36, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

== Arabic text ==

Not for the first time I've run into problems trying to edit articles which contain Arabic text.  On this occasion I've been trying to add the date of death (1992) into the brackets in the first sentence of [[Youra Eshaya]].  The preceding Arabic text interfers with the Roman text in the edit box - try it if you want to see what I mean.  PS I'm currently editing with IE 7.  Any ideas? [[User:Greenshed|Greenshed]] 20:02, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
:No problem here, using IE6. <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — [[User:Edokter|<span style="color: #008;">'''''E''dokter'''</span>]] • [[User_talk:Edokter|<span style="color: #080;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 21:33, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
::But if you were to attempt to change "(born 1933, died 1992)" to "(1933 &ndash; 1992)" (in line with the MOS?) then I think that it would all go wrong. [[User:Greenshed|Greenshed]] 23:23, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

:::If you are using Windows XP, you might need to [http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/int_pr_install_complex_languages.mspx?mfr=true install complex script and right-to-left language files]. Windows Vista I know comes with all this built-in, and I'm sure that Linux and Mac OS X would also have it. —[[User:Remember the dot|Remember the dot]] <sup>([[User talk:Remember the dot|talk]])</sup> 23:34, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

:::I use Windows 2000/IE6 and only had the "Japanese" font installed once. Since then, most languages requiring unicode display just fine. I had no trouble editing the first line. <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — [[User:Edokter|<span style="color: #008;">'''''E''dokter'''</span>]] • [[User_talk:Edokter|<span style="color: #080;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 00:09, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
::::Oops, I see what you mean; editing numbers makes the numbers jump around and reversing. <span style="font-family: verdana;"> — [[User:Edokter|<span style="color: #008;">'''''E''dokter'''</span>]] • [[User_talk:Edokter|<span style="color: #080;">Talk</span>]] • </span> 00:17, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

:::::Fun with [[bi-directional text]]. The Arabic name starts a right-to-left context, and when you remove the word "born" (which begins a left-to-right context), the remaining punctuation and numbers inherit the Arabic's right-to-leftness. One easy solution is to insert the character U+200E just after the name; this invisible character has the strong left-to-right property that is needed to prevent the punctuation from being interpreted as right-to-left. [[User:Anomie|Anomie]] 01:37, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

== Accessibility testing ==

Could you please give me some scenarios for doing accessibility testing..  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Banunaik16|Banunaik16]] ([[User talk:Banunaik16|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Banunaik16|contribs]]) 09:54, 11 February 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:See [[Wikipedia:Accessibility]]. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 12:14, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

== Links question ==

how can I make a link to a specific paragraph of some other article? For example a link to the paragraph "Tampa Jook Music" of the article "Music of Florida" from a different article.. Thanks--<span style="color:black;">'''Lykantrop'''</span> <sup>([[User talk:Lykantrop|Talk]])</sup> 14:35, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
:See [[Help:Link#Section linking (anchors)]] - or maybe you only have to see how I made that link! [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 14:55, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
::Nice one! thanks..--<span style="color:black;">'''Lykantrop'''</span> <sup>([[User talk:Lykantrop|Talk]])</sup> 15:27, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

== Image problem ==

I have been trying to make the image in the infobox in this article [[Flores, Buenos Aires]] display properly. The image is off commons ([[:Image:Flores-Buenos Aires map.png]]) and should display in the same way as the image used on [[Floresta, Buenos Aires]]. The image seems to work perfectly well on Spanish wikipedia ([[:es:Flores (Buenos Aires)]]). Neither myself nor another experienced editor see to be able to figure out what the problem is. Does anyone have any ideas? [[User:English peasant|<span style="color:#FF0000;">English</span>]] [[User talk:English peasant|<span style="color:#66CCFF;">peasant</span>]] 21:05, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
:Fixed.  The [http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/Flores-Buenos_Aires_map.png/150px-Flores-Buenos_Aires_map.png thumbnail] was corrupted.  I just [http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Palermo-Buenos_Aires_map.png?action=purge purged] (and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flores-Buenos_Aires_map.png?action-purge again]) the caches to make mediawiki regenerate the thumbnails. [[User:JackSchmidt|JackSchmidt]] ([[User talk:JackSchmidt|talk]]) 21:18, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
::The image still doesn't seem to display in the infobox here [[Flores, Buenos Aires]]. [[User:English peasant|<span style="color:#FF0000;">English</span>]] [[User talk:English peasant|<span style="color:#66CCFF;">peasant</span>]] 21:25, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
:::Because you have already visited this page today, you need to [[MediaWiki:clearyourcache|clear your browser cache]]. --[[User:TheDJ|TheDJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 21:31, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
::::Cheers,sorry for being dim! [[User:English peasant|<span style="color:#FF0000;">English</span>]] [[User talk:English peasant|<span style="color:#66CCFF;">peasant</span>]] 21:47, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

== HotCat Gadget bug ==

I'm not sure if this is the place to report it, or if it has already been reported, but [[WP:HOTCAT|HotCat]] breaks on "view source" pages ([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Main_Page&action=edit example]), causing all my other javascript to break also. The exact error is "document.editform has no properties", for obvious reasons. — [[User:Bob|Bob]] • ([[User talk:Bob|talk]]) • 22:32, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
:Speak to [[User talk:TheDJ|TheDJ]]?  I know how to fix it (<code>if(document.editform) //blah else return;</code>) but there's probably a better solution, one TheDJ would likely know.  <span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 8pt;">[[User:x42bn6|<b>x42bn6</b>]] <span style="font-size: 7pt;">[[User talk:x42bn6|Talk]] [[Special:Contributions/x42bn6|Mess]]</span></span> 22:46, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
:(editconflict) The place to report would be at [[WT:HOTCAT]] :D I'll fix it right away. --[[User:TheDJ|TheDJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 22:47, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
:[ecx2]I'm assuming it's a permissions problem; as an administrator with the script installed, I don't have any problems with it. [[User:EVula|EVula]] <span style="color: #999;">// [[User talk:EVula|talk]] // [[User:EVula/admin|<span style="color: #366;">&#9775;</span>]] //</span> 22:49, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Problem should be fixed now, but you might have to trash your browsercache in order to get the latest version. Thx for the report. --[[User:TheDJ|TheDJ]] ([[User talk:TheDJ|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/TheDJ|contribs]]) 23:02, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
:It works now; thanks! — [[User:Bob|Bob]] • ([[User talk:Bob|talk]]) • 15:52, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
== merging account and usernames ==

Hello, I own the Username '''Ataraxie''' on the french wikipedia. It's taken here by someone who has not contributed for quite some time. Would it be possible to rename it in order for me to merge accounts ? Thank you.--[[User:Ataraxiel|Ataraxiel]] ([[User talk:Ataraxiel|talk]]) 13:54, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
:Try asking at [[WP:CHU/SUL]], that's where the English Wikipedia handles all SUL-related rename requests. --[[User:ais523|ais523]] 14:13, 9 June 2008 ([[User:ais523|U]][[User talk:ais523|T]][[Special:Contributions/Ais523|C]])

== IE8 activities (moved by author) ==

Sorry guys, misplaced post. Moved it to the "proposals" section after discovering my mistake. Feel free to delete this.[[User:ThorinMuglindir|ThorinMuglindir]] ([[User talk:ThorinMuglindir|talk]]) 06:23, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

== Parson's Function Question ==

I would like to discuss with someone who is an '''EXPERT''' on '''PARSON FUNCTIONS''' how to get them "activated" on a Wiki site. - [[User:Ixthis888|Ixthis888]] ([[User talk:Ixthis888|talk]]) 00:33, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
: The basic parser functions are built-in, the others require installation of [[mw:Extension:ParserFunctions]]. Follow the link for instructions. This assumes the wiki uses [[MediaWiki]]. [[User:Calvin 1998|Calvin 1998]]&nbsp;<sup>([[User talk:Calvin 1998|t]]-[[Special:Contributions/Calvin 1998|c]])</sup> 05:31, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

: lol @ 'parson functions' -- [[Special:Contributions/144.32.177.148|144.32.177.148]] ([[User talk:144.32.177.148|talk]]) 11:07, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

== How about... ==

How about on top of the header for the page, have a list of ongoing technical issues (like the missing image thing) so we don't keep getting the same question? --[[User talk:Random832|Random832]] ([[special:contributions/Random832|contribs]]) 21:05, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

:My guess is that most new users wouldn't know to check it. It's just as easy to say  "we know about that" as it is to say "look at the top of the page", but the first option is more friendly than the second. &mdash;&nbsp;Carl <small>([[User:CBM|CBM]]&nbsp;·&nbsp;[[User talk:CBM|talk]])</small> 21:11, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

::Can't hurt to try it. Could make sure it screams "The following are known problems and we are working on them". -- [[User:Philcha|Philcha]] ([[User talk:Philcha|talk]]) 21:18, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

:::How about like [[Wikipedia:Centralized discussion]]? Not only a list of current issues, but a link to the discussion. --—<i><b>—&nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray;">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Gadget850|<sup style="color:darkblue;">talk</sup>]]</b> - </i> 11:40, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
:In [[Template talk:Infobox VG]] you'll see that a particular topic has been archived separately in order to group like-topic threads and cut down on duplicate proposals. I think this would be the best approach, but also the hardest. (Probably near impossible for the Village Pump, unless someone were to step up and take a definite interest in the task.) [[User:SharkD|SharkD]] ([[User talk:SharkD|talk]]) 21:43, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

== Talk archiving ==

If a talk page references itself, then the link(s) may go dead once a page has been archived. I was wondering if more sophisticated methods of archiving Talk pages have been pursued in order to prevent such errors? [[User:SharkD|SharkD]] ([[User talk:SharkD|talk]]) 21:38, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
:We really should bring Wikipedia up-to-date.  Semantic MediaWiki, a better design and increased HTML support would help - the internet's advanced, we haven't. Unfortunately cut-&-paste-ing the threads to a subpage is the only method we have. We should make Wikipedia more 'flowing', and all our problems will be solved! TLDR - No, there is no more sophisticated way of archiving talk pages. '''[[User:Dendodge|<em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:blue">Den</em><em style="font-family:Bradley Hand ITC;color:red">dodge</em>]]''' <small>[[User talk:Dendodge|Talk]]</small><sup>[[Special:Contributions/Dendodge|Contribs]]</sup> 21:56, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
::[[mw:Extension:LiquidThreads]], coming soon to a blue moon near you... [[User:Happy-melon|<b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>]]‑[[User talk:Happy-melon|<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b>]] 22:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

== Page histories returning SQL errors ==

For any Talk pages in any namespaces, I am seeing the following message when trying to view the page histories:
<blockquote><syntaxhighlight>A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last attempted database query was:

    (SQL query hidden)

from within function "IndexPager::reallyDoQuery (PageHistoryPager)". MySQL returned error "1054: Unknown column 'ts_tags' in 'field list' (10.0.6.22)".</syntaxhighlight></blockquote>

Any idea what's up?  [[User:Dynaflow|<span style="color:#285991;">--'''''Dynaflow'''''</span>]] [[User_talk:Dynaflow|<small><span style="color:#285991;">babble</span></small>]] 22:23, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
:Yes, and it's actually all histories (modified header). –<span style="font-family:Verdana;">[[User:Xeno|<span style="color:black;">'''xeno'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Xeno|<span style="color:black;">talk</span>]])</span> 22:27, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
::See all the threads under here [[Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#DB_error]] [[User:Foxy Loxy|<span style="color:#CC6600;">Foxy</span> <span style="color:#993300;">Loxy</span>]] [[User talk:Foxy Loxy|<sup><span style="color:#CC3333;">Pounce!</span></sup>]] 22:28, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
:::I totally posted this in the wrong spot.  Whoops.  [[User:Dynaflow|<span style="color:#285991;">--'''''Dynaflow'''''</span>]] [[User_talk:Dynaflow|<small><span style="color:#285991;">babble</span></small>]] 22:30, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
== Category page size limit ==

The current limit on number of category page items to display per screen (200) seems unnecessarily low to me. Would it be a big deal resource-wise if it were raised to, say, 500?--[[User:Kotniski|Kotniski]] ([[User talk:Kotniski|talk]]) 10:40, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

:Note: Since [[bugzilla:4970]] this can be set per-site via [[mw:Manual:$wgCategoryPagingLimit]]. --[[User:Splarka|Splarka]] ([[User_talk:Splarka|rant]]) 07:37, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
::I imagined it could be - that's why I was asking, with a view to proposing that it be changed. It partly depends what people find most convenient when browsing categories (shorter or longer pages), but I wondered if there were any server-load concerns as well.--[[User:Kotniski|Kotniski]] ([[User talk:Kotniski|talk]]) 09:11, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
I don't see what's stopping us from allowing category urls to accept parameters like <tt>&limit=500</tt> to override the config'd amount. However as far as aesthetics go it might be useful to allow the paging limit to be specified on a per-category basis, e.g. where the member pages have long titles, one may want fewer per page. — [[User talk:CharlotteWebb|CharlotteWebb]] 12:18, 23 May 2009 (UTC)